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Last week I had my first encounter with a motor sparking during start that was later determined to be "normal" (not associated with any destructive condition). So I wanted to share the experience and what we learned.
It was a 1000 hp 3600 rpm 4kv Open Drip Proof (ODP) vertical squirrel cage induction motor. The top of the motor is about 10' above floor leve(coupling is about 3' above floor leve). An operator saw a spark come out of the top of the motor during start and glow as it fell all the way to the floor. Inspection of the floor afterwards showed nothing left of the spark. The area where the spark was said to have came out of the motor was actually the air inlet. There was no smell of smoke. There were no abnormal noises noted. The motor was immediately stopped as a precaution under the suspicion that this might be an electrical winding fault. Review of industry documents indicate that (in addition to winding faults and rotor/stator contact), sparking can occur during starting due to normal movement of rotor bars in slots, and the occurrence of sparking can increase if rotor bars are degrading. See the following quotes:
Based on the above, we performed the following checks before restarting the motor: insulation resistance test, polarization index test, winding resistance (bridge) test. boroscopic inspection of accessible areas through motor vent ports. The above tests showed no problems, so we restarted the motor and checked vibrations and current signature. These were normal. The moral of the story: What to do if you see sparks coming from a motor during start? If possible, I think it's conservative to shut down the motor for off-line testing and followup with on-line testing like we did. But sparks coming out of a induction motor during starting does not necessarily indicate any problem with the motor. It may be a normal occurrence. Based on the degree of enclosure, it seems to me that externally-visible sparks are more likely on an Open Drip Proof (ODP) indoor motors than a weather protected outdoor motors (WP1 or WP2), and of course impossible for TEFC. Any comments? Has anyone else seen anything like this? This message has been edited. Last edited by: electricpete, |
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I have seen sparking but not due to start up tangential vibration of the bars and current flowing from laminations to the bars. Thanks for very useful info.
David |
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Hi guys,
Bit late in replying but what the heck. Sparking of induction motors is not uncommon, GEC in the 80's and early 90's did a lot work trying photogrpah it and develop ceramic coated bars to design motors for haz area use - to be used instead of Ex 'p'. IF anyone is intrested then I have a copy of the sales bumff and papers that go with this topic. Tony. Learn from the mistakes of others, life is too short to make them all yourself :-) |
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Are you just "joking, Tony"
I can see where this would be a bigger concern in areas with explosive atmospheres. I would be interested to learn m ore about it. Do you have any more info you can post here? |
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Lol :-)
I'll have a rummge through the files tonight (job change so they are buried a littel!) Toyn Learn from the mistakes of others, life is too short to make them all yourself :-) |
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Ok, found it - it is a number of articles from GEC alstom on the problem and the design of ceramic coated bars to caounter it, I had the please of working with a couple of the guys behind the papers, in fact some of them still work for Cegelec UK Ltd (the decendant of GEC alstom motors).
But I don't have clue how to host on this board but if you want a copy please drop me a mai - [edit] e-mail removed [/edit]. Cheers Tony This message has been edited. Last edited by: jo-KING-tony, Learn from the mistakes of others, life is too short to make them all yourself :-) |
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Hi Tony,
If you want to post it, make a pdf file of those articles. Any scanner will do a super job for you. Then: 1) Write the text of your posting 2) Click “Add attachment†3) Click “Browse†4) Find the directory on your computer where the file is stored. 5) Click the file 6) Add the description if you want to 7) Click “Post now†Last time when I looked, the top output for induction motors with a plain cage was about 6 MW. The limiting factor was arcing between the cage and the iron on the startup. So there is a good reason for the insulated cage. jank |
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thanks chap - how did not see that button ! 1.6mb upload.
Learn from the mistakes of others, life is too short to make them all yourself :-) induction_machines_for_use_in_potentially_explosive_areas.pdf (1,565 Kb, 22 downloads) induction machines for use in potentially explosive areas.pdf |
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That's a great article. Interesting to see the detective work that was used in the early days to narrow it down to the rotor. Thanks for posting that.
Also interesting to see that rotor bar insulation is used on some machines to limit inter-bar currents associated with this sparking during start: Page 23 of 40
This is 100% consistent with comments from Jan in the thread on torque producing force. |
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it is an interesting article - I was very lucky, when I started my engineering career I had the chance to work with some of the people involved in the project, in fact my boss worked in the development lab with Roger Regan and to work with that sort of experience is truly invaluable - and of course some of the stories; they recall spending many happy hours with a hydrogen fill bag and different types of bars at high voltage trying to make them blow up
Tony. Learn from the mistakes of others, life is too short to make them all yourself :-) |
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