This is where you can post a question for Jim Taylor or Jason Tranter about the Vibration Analysis Web Workshop broadcast on April 21, 2006.

Recorded playback and presentation downloads are available here:
Reliability Roadmap Web Workshop Playback Library

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Terry O

this is for jim taylor
YOU TALKED ABOUT GETTING THE FINANCE GUY INVOLVED WITH PUTTING THE VIB. PROGRAM INTO GEAR. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME TIPS ON HOW TO GET HIM ON BOARD. HIS PLATE IS FULL ENOUGH GETTING HIM INTERESTED WILL BE THE TRICK.

quote:

Originally posted by Terrence O'Hanlon:
This is where you can post a question for Jim Taylor or Jason Tranter about the Vibration Analysis Web Workshop broadcast on April 21, 2006.

Recorded playback and presentation downloads are available here:
Reliability Roadmap Web Workshop Playback Library

This message board does require registration to keep spammers out. Use the Join or Manage Profile link above to sign up.

Terry O

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BILL SCH.:
this is for jim taylor
YOU TALKED ABOUT GETTING THE FINANCE GUY INVOLVED WITH PUTTING THE VIB. PROGRAM INTO GEAR. CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME TIPS ON HOW TO GET HIM ON BOARD. HIS PLATE IS FULL ENOUGH GETTING HIM INTERESTED WILL BE THE TRICK.

Bill,

Too true. You probably can't get his full attention but maybe someone from his department. I'd start by explaining what I was trying to do and asking his advice on how to put the cost-benefit together. Then I'd ask if records exist for data we need. You may get him interested enough he'll help or at least point you in the right direction. At the very least, run the cost-benefit by him before submitting it.

Jim

Jason -

You mentioned category I,II,III and IV for Vibration - didn't that used to be Level I, II and III?

Are those categories the same for all PdM Technologies?

Terry O

Bill Sch.- If you company has a cost reduction, or streamlining program, find out how to fit your program into that structure. If you can show that this fits into a current program, even if it takes renaming your program or structuring it to fit his, he will become much more interested. Finance guys usually arent interested in words like "availability, uptime, reliability" or similar words. They like "cost reduction, efficiency gains, streamlining, lean manufacturing" etc.

You can usually find these programs and goals associated with them in company newsletters, intranets, or in quarterly analysts meetings held for company investors. If your company does not have any current programs like this in place, then the problem is at a much higher level than you can effect unfortunately.

All technical people could benefit from some training in how to speak the language of business and finance. Our proposals may then catch the attention of upper management if they include the right words and fit into the companies strategic goals/imperatives.

Hi Terry,

Traditionally the certification ranges were called "Levels". Level I was a basic training course, Level II was more advanced, etc. The definition of Level I and II etc. varied greatly from one training company/vendor to the next. So saying that you were "Level II" certified did not really mean anything.

In addition, some companies often delivered a course that was more basic than the Level I. And some felt that Level 3 was not advanced enough.

The ASNT (The American Society for Non destructive Testing) has developed a "recommended practice" for a variety of condition monitoring technologies, including vibration analysis. However, due to the breadth of topics covered, many companies offer four courses to cover the range described in their three levels.

So, quite some time ago changes were proposed to create four levels. They have now been built into the ISO (International Standards Organization) standards. The first standard, released in 2003, was 18436 part 2 for "Vibration condition monitoring and diagnostics". But there are other standards under development for "Lubrication management and analysis", "Thermography", and "Condition monitoring specialists". Instead of calling them Level I, II and III they are called "Category I, II, III, and IV". In very basic terms, Category II is similar to what many people think of as Level I, and Category III is similar to Level II. But if you look more closely at the standard, that is not quite true.

Category I is very much an introductory course, designed for the person taking the vibration measurements and the person just getting started in vibration analysis. It is not intended to teach enough for a person to be able to confidently diagnose all fault types independently, but it is a very good starting point. A person does not have to complete Category I in order to go into Category II, but it is recommended for people who are new to vibration analysis.

Category II is designed for the analyst who is collecting and analyzing data. This person is expected to understand harmonics and sidebands, understand the various data collector options (Fmax, lines of resolution, etc.) and this person should be able to diagnose a wide range of fault conditions.

Category III is a more advanced course. It covers time waveform analysis, phase analysis, and enveloping in greater detail than Category II. It covers pretty much all fault conditions. It goes into ODS and modal analysis. It covers corrective techniques, and it teaches some tips and tricks for setting up and running a successful program. It is expected that the buck stops with the Category III person. That person must make the final recommendation. That person must lead and mentor the other team members. That person must understand the other CM technologies.

Category IV is yet another step up, but it is really focused on rotor/bearing dynamics, corrective action and modal analysis (more advanced than Category III).

I have to confess that we do not exactly follow the standard. For example, the standard says that you do not cover time waveform and demod/enveloping until Category III, whereas we cover it in Category II - it is covered in greater detail in Category III but we felt that a Category II person needs to be able to understand and use these two analysis techniques. We cover what needs to be covered according to the standard, but we add additional topics to make it more practical and more focused on the students needs.

If anyone would like more information, we have more detail on our Web site (http://www.ilearninteractive.com/mi/Certification.html), and you can order the ISO standard at their Web site: www.iso.org. The ISO standard describes the topics that should be covered in the course, and the approximate amount of time that should spent on each topic.

Jason Tranter
Mobius
www.ilearninteractive.com

Terry,

At this time, only 18436-2, Vibration contains 4 categories. This was put in at the insistence of some countries who did not feel that their economies could support all vibration technicians being analysts so the data gathering category was developed. There has been no other request for this type of inclusion in the other technology training standards that are being developed.