I was looking at the VB3000 as a viable low cost alternative to a 2130. I waited 6 months to get one. It was drop shipped to me. I found the support staff knowledgeable, but short sighted. The sales staff did not contact me until 30 days after I sent the unit back. They were unaware of any issues I had with the unit, even though they were kept in the loop with copies of all e-mails.
Being unable to resolve the machine up load issue I never went to the field with the unit. I have several associates whom are saddled with the VB3000 and have heard more than enough about its short comings. I do not have the luxury of time to spend on anything I do not feel has an option of panning out.

The CSi 2120 with an adapter and the 2130 can take a velocity or acceleration reading and a peak vue at the same time use two channels one for each reading hence reducing collection and processing time. Also the CSI units can do coherence etc which DLI, entek etc can not. The DLI unit can take HVA with a traxial accelerometer which very few other data collectors can do.
I do have a use for multi-position readings sometimes on items which have fairly brief cycle times with 4 or so bearing positions it would be good to take two positons at once halving the collection time.

Bruce,

If you get the 4-channel mux adapter, you can do 4 channels.

Danny

I have just begun to play with the 2 channel route based feature of the 2130. This has reduced my collection time by about 30%. I understand Ludeca will incorporate this feature in the next month or two. It makes a big difference if the data collector is a true 2 channel analyzer.

Arnie, it is really tough that you had such a hard time with the VB3000. I have found it to be a very nice instrument. The software is especially nice.
Do you know how old the units are that belong to the other people that have VBs. They made some great improvements somewhere around the first of 2006. Data acquisition speed was increased substantially and several onther enhancements were made.
If those guys you know are still having problems and would like to talk to a satisfied user who may can help please have them email me at vibeguy2004@yahoo.com

I've used a Vibescanner for about four or five years now and like it, especially for on-route work. I especially like the ability to collect many things besides vibration data on a route. I think it gives me a clearer picture. Haven't used the Vibexpert enough to form an opinion. The omnitrend software is ok, does the job. Could be a little more user friendly. Reporting capability is very limited.

I ment off-route work.

Arnie
I have got a VB 2000 not a VB3000 and have had no problems collecting multiple collection points
I have attached the results from a machine I built with 36 collection points sent to the collector once and uploaded once
(I just sat at my desk and pressed the button so the levels are meaningless)
Have I read your post right is this something you were trying to do, if not can you elaborate?
Mike

36_collection_points.xls (20 KB, 91 downloads)

The Vibscanner, which I have used for 4 years, is a nice data collector. The vibcode is a great feature for both the Vibscanner and the VibXpert. Unlike the VB3000 the VibXpert and the 2130 are true 2 channel analyzers. If all you want to do is collect data any data collector will do. Then you fall back on the software. Omnitrend has come a long way in the last few months, but it still can't meet AMS Suite half way. Assent Watcher? Not even in the same sentence. You narrow the choices if you want to analyze in the field, a data collector just won't do it. Add the demand for speed and the choices narrow. The 2130 may cost a little more, but is just can not be beat as a full featured two channel analyzer. And when I started the process of elimination my only requirement was that I would not buy a CSI product.

Just to set the recoed straight, the VB3000 is a TRUE 2 channel analyzer. You can do Cross-Channel Phase and orbits with it.

Vibeguy,

Is that the definition of a true 2-channel analyzer?

To me it´s a unit that have 2 physical A/D converters, in some cases inside 1 IC but still, the rest is software or lack of, in my view. On the other hand there are systems that is regarded to be 2-channel that physically only have a fast A/D converter and a fast switch and that also works since the data we collect is comparatively slow, but it is not a true 2 channel unit in my book. Olov

Oli,

That would exclude the CSI 2120-2 from the true 2-channel units, then?

What problems can arise due to a unit not being a true 2-channel?

Vibeguy,

As I understand it the VB3000 cannot collect 2 route readings simultaneously. Is that correct?

Thanks,

Danny

I think a key feature of a "real" multichannel analyzer is the ability to do cross channel properties like phase, transfer function and coherence. Not that these are methods often employed for data collection but more for advanced analysis.

The ability to collect more than one channel simultaneously is valuable even without the cross-channel functions as it can cut data aquisition time. On slow speed machines, taking 2 channels at once will almost halve data acquisition time. On higher speed machines, where the data acquisition time is short, the overall time savings will be much less.

Jon
Spintelligent Labs
jon@spintelligentlabs.com

Danny, it´s correct and there is no problem doing it that way, it´s just one way to define things, conservative? maybe. Either you have a 2 or more channel system or you have a multiplexed system that´s the way it´s defined in my book and the rest is software or the lack of it. Software is flexible and can be improved, hardware is defined unless it´s modular and possible to upgrade. The other way to describe it would be what the enduser feels he is using and that is not what I find technically specific. End user is only seeing what the software deliver and the definitions are in the specs. Only my strictly technical opinion. Olov

Arnie Hart, I just used the Balance program in my 2130 2-channel for the first time today, and I have to say I am impressed. It's not perfect, but they've tweaked it a little and added some things that make it easier to use. My only complaint about the 2130 is there seem to be more keystrokes needed than on the 2120, and some of the key placements are illogical. (One of my "projects" for 2007 is to get them fixed, or try to.)

Maybe you can do this with other analyzer/balancers, but I balance 5 large baghouse fans at once using the CSI box and balance software. I just define a job in the analyzer, make (and rename) 4 copies of the job, and then switch from one job to the next as fast as I can move from fan to fan. I have 5 pairs of transducers/magnets/cables and 5 laser tachs. We start them all, I take data on all five, then we shut them all down and only make one trip to the MCC to do lock-out. We hang weights on all five, make one trip back to unlock, and start the process over. Saves a world of time and got me on more-or-less permanent status with this customer for shutdowns.

I can also do 3 or 4 motor alignments on these fans in a day, working alone. It's all about the tools!

Danny, I have not tried that yet. I will see and get back to you.

Rusty,

That is an awesome idea. You are providing tons of value with your experience and equipment. I hope they are paying a higher daily rate since you are more efficient and getting things done 5 times as fast...

Danny,

"True 2 channel analyzer" is marketing speak. Some analyzers have a fully capable A channel, and a slightly limited B channel (2120) but still compute full 2 channel functions. Others have 2 identical circuits for A and B making them "true 2 channel analyzers" (2130). If they can compute transfer function at all frequencies, and display B/A for coherence and transmissibility, like that needed for impact testing and modal analysis, then I consider it to be "true 2 channel". VB3000 does not do this, it is single frequency cross channel analyzer only. This is great for simple frequency phase analysis without a srobe or tach.
Just my interpretation of things, subject to change (or editing) at any time!

Danny,
You said, "Oli,
That would exclude the CSI 2120-2 from the true 2-channel units, then?
What problems can arise due to a unit not being a true 2-channel?"

Here's my simplistic view between the 2120-2 and the 2130 from my experience in the field. The 2120 can collect simultaneous data under certain restrictions. You can use 2 accels IF the AP set is the same for both accels. You can use the 628 split input adapter to collect simultaneous data with 1 accel for regular data and peakvue data IF the fmax is within a certain range and the waveform for both is in acceleration. The 2130 has no such restrictions. You can use any input adapter with A/B inputs and use any AP set on either channel. If you want to collect simultaneous data with only 1 accel, you can do that also with any input adapter. You don't need the split input adapter. I use the A channel from my A/B adapter that I carry for phase checks. Moreover, using only 1 accel, you can use any AP set combination including regluar data with digital waveform, analog waveform, special time waveform, peakvue sets..... You have the same flexibility using the Eurofast (Turck) connection instead of the adapter with BNC connections. I usually use BNC, but the Eurofast holds up better when you are taking a bath in the press section.
I'm not trying to make a sales pitch, but this is my take on it.

David Eason

Bill, actually I charge the same whether I'm balancing one fan or five at a time. The 'extra value' (at no extra charge) is part of what got me the PdM contract at this plant. It also gives me a big competitive edge over anyone who might want to try and get the shutdown work.

When I was with the power company, at the end of each shutdown we had 24 hours to balance the 6 big boiler fans. Once we went "digital" with our balancing, we were able to eliminate this 24 hour "balancing period" and get back online a day sooner. We took advantage of a 4 hour 'window' from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. (between shifts). We would use the last 3 nights of the shutdown... we'd run all the fans and take data the first night, and then take our time preparing, positioning, and attaching our weights during the day. The 2nd night we'd make our trial runs, and adjust the weights during the day again. The 3rd night we'd trim if needed and take our final readings. It took a bit more coordination but it was worth it. A by-product was we did a better job of balancing (from an average of 1 mil per bearing down to 0.3 mils) which allowed us to get to the next shutdown (18 months) with lower vibration levels.

Better tools certainly make it easier for us all to do a better job, but our mantra should always be "continuous improvement"... the kind that actually 'improves' something instead of just looking good on paper or making someone look good.