Okay, CSI is going to be left out at the curb in 2010 due to their "marketing strategy". Too bad- it is a great piece of equipment but how can they justify charging $2815-$3030 for a screw? (Symbolic example? I think so!) Any suggestions as far as a replacement for their 2120 and its sidekick RBMware? Commtest VB3000? IRD? Please throw in your 2¢ worth.

Well, if you're a consultant you might want to consider looking into getting one of those new Tough Book laptops, Labview software and a 4 channel (bnc) pcmcia adapter card. I would steer clear of all in one box collectors with their associated software and support expense. My 2cents.

NI has a 4 channel USB 2 bus with ICP power A/D converter, the USB-9233 that is simpler to use than general purpose pcmcia cards in that it has built-in anti-aliasing. They also have a network interface available for the card.

OK...I'll bite. Is CSI going somewhere? Is somebody buying them out? Are they closing doors?

http://maintenanceforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3751089...571045991#8571045991They are sticking around- they are merely discontinuing support for the 2120-(marketing strategy for selling more 2130's)

Nate,

I think it is safe to recommend you remove IRD as a choice. Entek Scientific bought IRD and Rockwell Automation acquired Entek-IRD. As far as I am aware, they no longer develop hardware but instead purchase it from SKF’s Diagnostic Instruments division. Therefore I would consider SKF directly for instrument support considerations.

Ron and Duncan have provided good advice. I’m sure others will provide solid input also. From what I’ve seen, the Commtest unit looks good and has potential to grow in capabilities.

George-I believe what Nate is alluding to is CSI support contract pricing.

Gary

I have beenusing Commtest VB2000(best at the time I think)from 1999. I use it every day and have had no problems. I am looking at the new 3000 for next year just to update (and tax write off). Good support IF you need it.

I cut my teeth in the vibration world on CSI equipment. I used the 2110 through the 2130. Last year the company that I work for switched me to the VB3000 and Ascent software. I was very reluctant at first, but have really grown to like it just as well as the CSI equipment, especially the software.
There is also the great selling point of free upgrades for 5 years. With some of the other equipment, you would pay enough in Maintenance fees to buy another unit and software in 5 years. The initial cost is a real advantage also.

Seems like the Commtest units have some merit, from what I've heard. Physically, the units are similar to the 2120 (size, weight, etc). I tried the software a couple of years ago, but it didn't seem at all intuitive to me. I like the simplicity of MasterTrend/RBMware, or maybe I'm just used to it.

If you are doing much "walk-around" work, there is no way that any laptop based analyzer is going to work.... they just won't hold up to the abuse.

I used to fret over the cost of CSI stuff, but the 2120 is nearly bulletproof as far as reliability, and I couldn't part with the virtual tach and the SpeedVue sensor (a lot of my machines are variable speed) and the flexible notecodes. As a one man shop, I can't afford to take a chance on reliability, so I'm sticking with the 2120 until 2010, by which time the 2130 should be a mature product and better than the 2120.

If you can't afford the equipment you need, you shouldn't be in the business (IMO). If you're a corporation and don't want to spend the money, hire a good consultant who has made the necessary investment.

Rusty, I am a little confused about your last comment. You do not have to buy the most expensive equipment to do a fine job as an analyst.

Ludeca came out with a box with a joy stick (I think?) and a vibration program. I have heard that it is simple but improvements are coming along. Has anyone heard how good it is? I think that maintaining the box and software was a really good deal. Some body know any more about it?

quote:

You do not have to buy the most expensive equipment to do a fine job as an analyst.

Of course you don't have to have the most expensive equipment, but I don't think you want to be a 'discount' consultant either.

Better equipment, along with lots of experience, makes you an effective analyst which to me means good and fast. That is a key to providing 'value' to the customer. I buy a lot of the best equipment, but usually at a deep discount. So I show up with most everything I need. If I had employees, I'd want them to show up with everything as well (vibration, balancing, alignment, belt alignment, ultrasonics, etc). And that does get expensive. But I don't have to 'come back later' to correct a problem. I don't do infrared because the payback is pretty drawn out and the 'repetition rate' is painfully slow. I have hung my hat pretty much on predictive maintenance.... as Don Rainey says, "predictive maintenance sucks, but it sucks real regular." Since I charge very reasonable rates, data collection speed, on-the-spot analysis, and fast report prep are all crucial to being efficient enough to survive. So I will gladly pay more for equipment that lets me do more, faster.

If you could pay $10K more for a system that would let you generate $20K more in revenue a year, wouldn't that be a good investment? Heck I'll spend $10K to generate $5K more revenue a year... over the 7-10 year life of that investment, I'm going to come out way ahead.

You have to seperate 'cost' from 'value'. Just my 2 cents.

I believe the issue here is not good or bad, expensive or cheap (less expensive) but support and age. CSI’s 2120 and Entek-IRD’s dataPAC 1500/1250’s are in the same boat: ‘old age’.

Every time you turn a house light on and off, or an electric motor on and off, it takes just a little bit out of the device, just as if you never did and left them ‘on’ continually. Vibration measuring instrumentation is no different. Increasingly more and more the dataPAC 1500 I use tends to ‘lock-up’ or do other weird stuff it didn’t do as a younger unit. The contained electronics are getting older, more tired and just maybe unable to perform like they did while younger…just like this writer!

In fairness to OEM’s, some electronic devices employed in older instrumentation are getting harder and harder to find, having been discontinued 5-7 years ago by there OEM and replaced by newer, more powerful devices. It may not be OEM’s don’t WANT to support older equipment, it may be they CAN’T support older equipment! And yes, of course, they want to sell new stuff too.

Regardless of how awesome products may be and perform, at some point they need to be replaced, in spite of if you want to or not. End of story.

Gary

I agree with Gary about the obsolescence factor of any electronic equipment. There were many good micro-computers over the years but technology has kept pushing the older ones out the door. If you were using the same computers now you would have to scour eBay and electronic salvage to get parts in order to make repairs.

Aubrey

DLI and Dactron are good. But you have to look at your facility. Maybe a ME-72 would do you.

I understand what you are saying Rusty. It just sounded like you were saying that Commtest equipment is not as good or as fast as CSI equipment. In the last year I have used both a lot and I can tell you that you do not sacrifice good or speed with the Commtest equipment.

Vibeguy,

As I understand it, the Commtest cannot collect route data in 2 channels simultaneously. Am I mistaken, because that is one of the CSI tools like Rusty described that is a real timesaver that can greatly increase efficiency?

I also seem to remember from the demo that there were a few higher end diagnostics in the 2120-2 and Consultant that the VB3000 couldn't do.

I really liked the software, price and support from Commtest, though.

Help educate me! I have heard this argument before but have never actually tried it, therefore cannot establish an opinion. The question: taking two measurements simultaneously with the CSI box 2-channel capability.

When you must position 2 transducers, acquire data, remove the 2 transducers & reinstall them both on two different measurement locations, store the readings, etc., etc., etc., is it really that much faster than using a single transducer (fully understanding the benefits of 2 channel simultaneous data collection)?

I never really paid much attention to my college class dealing with time & motion study. Thought it was pretty boring. Probably why I earned a ‘D.’

Gary

The DLI does 4 channels and I think the Dactron is basically unlimited and can plug-in to full-time monitoring or muxin' in. Have fooled with it in a while. Also, the DLI software will handle the 2120 CSI box.

But or it should go without saying: the 4 ch unit (DLI) can do 3 vibs (H, V & A) + phase if you're so inclined.

I would see no advantage to 2 ch PdM Route monitoring.