Sam wrote in the RBM ware thread:

"You can create a machine in 15 seconds but without refined frequency bands or amplitude alert/alarm parameters. No auto-reports (I tried the exception report thing in the old softwear and it was out in left field but setup by someone else), no auto-diagnostics and no assigning names to auto-email so reports can be sent automatically ------------- or as far as I know it won't do that..... this one doesn't.

I think the CSI system can give you a PdM program and one that will work - I just think they should and can do better. I think we have to expect more to get more. And in addition; I think for the price it should be more. And in fairness, I don't have the exact same philosophy and don't like putting all my apples in one basket.

Sincerely,
Sam Pickens"

The thing is, my observation has been that a majority of the analysts I know use maybe 10% of the capability of the data collectors they carry, regardless of brand name. How many of you all use the statistical capabilites or your software? How many of you use band alarms? Peakvue or any of the other enveloping technologies?

I think that the power users and the consultants that really know this stuff probably do use those functions and others, but the typical guy in the field is probably making decisions on overall amplitude, and the extent of his or her analysis is to go look for bearing frequencies or gear mesh.

Having said that, I think that is probably good enough for most problems, so instead of buying more and more expensive analyzers/collectors with all the whistles and bells, expecting more if you will and risking more in regards to analyzer/software reliability, I wonder if a basic device that does a really efficient job of the basics would be better suited to most programs?

Consider this a philosophical discussion, for myself I have to agree with Sam. For many of the people I know that gather data day in and day out, I wonder if we have already overkilled them with technology.

Goes with understanding your needs.

See attached paper on the same subject.

Howard

Considerations_Before_Investing_in_CBM_Technologies.pdf (91 Kb, 26 downloads) Considerations before purchasing CBM equipment

I can't believe anyone uses all the "bells, whistles and lights" that CSI or any other company has in the software/hardware.

Most use only what they need to do the job to the best of their ability. When they reach a point that they are comfortable with what they have been using, then they, like I, will and have tried adding other ways to try and improve these skills.

To attempt to use "all" of these bells, whistles and lights, especially when someone is "new" to and not familiar with the CSI software or any company's program, is something of an aberration.

Only my opinion and I could be totally wrong.

Ralph:

That is true. However, having been an instrument manufacturer, in the past, I do have a statement:

It is more cost effective to manufacture a single device with many options than multiple devices with specific options. Also less confusing to the buyer - business reason for instruments with bells and whistles.

Sales/Marketing reasons:

• People tend to purchase when they have to make fewer choices;
  
• The 'WOW' factor: For instance, when I chose my new vehicle, there were two sitting next to each other with the same options. But one had washer fluid for the headlights and reversing sensors in the rear bumper (and a higher sticker price). Did I really need those features? Never needed them before. But gee, the car has more stuff. (bought it) With instruments, the rep has ammo: 'We can do more than they can!'
  
• Training sales: Can be very profitable. Most of the cost is labor and gives the company a more professional look. How else are you going to learn how to use those bells and whistles for your application? After-market sales result. Training also generates customer loyalty - 'They sold me the equipment AND taught me how to use it. I will stick with them!'
  

You get the idea.

Thought you might enjoy,
Howard

quote:

Originally posted by Ralph Stewart:
I can't believe anyone uses all the "bells, whistles and lights" that CSI or any other company has in the software/hardware.

Most use only what they need to do the job to the best of their ability. When they reach a point that they are comfortable with what they have been using, then they, like I, will and have tried adding other ways to try and improve these skills.

To attempt to use "all" of these bells, whistles and lights, especially when someone is "new" to and not familiar with the CSI software or any company's program, is something of an aberration.

Only my opinion and I could be totally wrong.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Back in the days when I worked for DLI, I visited a customer that had the lastest data collector and the expert system software and had have several weeks of setup and training at no small cost.

They were quite pleased with their program and felt like they were getting good results and value from it. We looked at a few machines, including some that had been worked on recently. I looked at the expert system report and asked if they had worked on the particular problem reported....

"Huh? On that. We don't even look at that. It never makes any sense to us. Here's what we look at...." He dug out a spectrum and pointed to the number in the corner. "This tells us everything we need to know." What was he looking at? The overall vibration level!

More than $50,000 in software, hardware, training and setup, and they were using the system as an overall level meter! And they were pleased with the results: "When that number goes up, we know something is wrong."

This is actually when the ST-101 and Spintelligence technology was conceived. If users want simple, give them the best simple possible. Instead of monitoring only velocity, monitor acceleration and displacement too so that problems don't go undetected. Simple can include diagnostics too that don't require weeks of training and years of experience to understand. Some people want or need to be experts in vibration analysis. Others just want to keep the machinery running and have some clue about problems before the machines fly apart.

To be honest, I don't even remember where this took place but it was sure a moment of revelation.

Jon
Spintelligent Labs

I'll jump in here, with perhaps a different twist. I have been using CSI hardware and software since about 1988. I still use MasterTrend (Windows) because I could never justify the cost to upgrade to RBMware which has more "bells and whistles" but is basically the same (though there are a few nice features I could/would use).

I don't use all that MasterTrend offers, not because I don't know about it or need it, but because I DON'T TAKE THE TIME.

It simply takes time to sit down and work on parameter sets or alarm sets. Or to think of innovative ways to collect data. Or to even standardize "note codes" across all my databases. I have very little time in the office these days to do anything but write reports and try to get the paperwork done that will get me paid.

I would have to make the time to "refine" my database and collection parameters, and I wouldn't get paid for it, except indirectly through improved efficiency and (perhaps) more accurate work. As in many things, it would be an investment that would probably pay dividends, though in life - as in investing - there is no "sure thing."

Time management is something that few of us are ever formally taught, though it is one of the most important life skills we can have. "Information management" is one of the most important skills we will ever have as analysts and troubleshooters, but we simply aren't taught to do it, and we usually don't take the time to learn it.

Handing a guy a "box" and sending his to a "vibration analysis" course is kind of like sending him to college for a degree -- when he gets done, he may be "qualified" but he can't actually DO anything.

It is up to each "qualified" individual to invest the time necessary to become productive with what he knows. That flys in the face of what most "hourly" employees think, though there are many on this board who are exceptions.

The CEO of the corporation I used to be with once said, "The only job security you have, is to be good enough at what you do that you can find a job when you leave here." To that I'd add, "You'll be paid more when you are worth it, usually not before."

So we have to all do whatever it takes to be worth more. We'll be worth more, when we know more.... we'll know more, when we learn more... we'll learn more, when we invest the necesary time.