VI asks for annual membership to keep the certificate valid.

Is this still required after the introduction of the iso standard?

Now to the heart: it's the mon hon.

20 yr guy w/1 wk training and certified.

1 yr or 4 month guy w/1 wk training and certified.

Your resume and track record is certification in my book accent on field proven track record with names and numbers to support your claims.

Are you sure they are requiring annual membership or bribe or whatever you want to call it to keep your certification? Anyone?

I am all for training and all you can get. Get all you can and can all you get.

Take a course and hang a shingle. How to govern? New can of worms. Should it be governed? Probably not.

You'd think the people hiring would have some common sense or move to China.

I pretty much agree with Sam, but unfortunately, most employers don't seem to have the common sense he speaks of.
I have been to all three levels of CSI training. I have 13 years of in house experience on a large variety of equipment. Don't get me wrong, I do not and never will know everything about anything, but the experience should count for something.
My employer does not require nor will they pay for me tot ake the certification offered by CSI or anyone else for that matter.
The problem I have been running into is that when searching for jobs, just about everyone I have looked at requires a level 1 or level 2 certification. I don't have that piece of paper, so I am not considered for the position. What they don't specify is who's ceertification they require. There are a wide number of outfits out there you can get a certification from. Have they standardized the test so they all carry the same weight or prestige when one tries to use it for a reference or justification of skills?
I thought once certifeid, always certified, guess maybe not all places see it that way, or they just see an opprotunity to keep milking money of a person.

Racer98-I'm not sure if I would want to work for someone who would put more stock in a cert than your considerable experience. I knew a guy who worked for a fairly well known outfit that related to me how his manager was overly concerned about how many PE's and staff certs his people had so he could brag to the other big boys he met. Obviously the quality of the work they put out wasen't to good because the office is now shuttered and dark. It takes all kinds I guess.

Shurafa

It sounds to me like someone is trying to scam you. Is the annual fee definitely for certification? or some other privilages offered to financial members?

Racer and Sam

Couldnt agree more with the the experience thing, but I once had an in house job and insisted to the employer i get certification. my approach was to be covered if there were an insurance issue. Hypothetically speaking Insurance company may ask if this dead $1million dollar machine was being monitored by a certified technician or some unqualified/uncertified person.
Employer saw sense in that.....and (not the original intention) I also got the paperwork to go play in the big world

CMIIW, but in singapore training I once heard that VI certification is only valid for 5 year and you must take recertification if you want to keep your license valid. don't know about the annual fee though

I have ISO level 2 which I achieved through BINDT (British Institute of Non Destructive Testing). This allows me to have the post nominals LEP (licensed engineering practitioner) on my business card. It shows an employer that I have current certification. After 10 years the certificate runs out and I can no longer use these letters unless I re-sit the exam or move up to level 3. I suppose it helps to filter out the people who have left the industry for a significant time and then returned.

I pay an annual membership to BINDT, but this is optional. My understanding is that the validity of the certificate is the same whether I am a member or not, but there are other benefits to being a member of such an institute.

None of this detracts from what has already been said. As far as competence goes, you can't beat experience and a proven track record. You can have all the training in the world and still be terrible at your job. I cite the case of the England football team

Please note I am Welsh. He He...

Shurafa,

ISO certification requires that you meet certian standards and has to renewed every five years.
You recieve points based on your experience during those years.
So many pointsfor being employed in the industry, so many for attending training classes, so many for attending meetings and so on.

To remain a member of the Vibration Institute they also require you to pay annual dues.

I do however agree with the other posters on this subject, in that experience means a hell of a lot more than certification. This is true even at the higher levels of certification; for instance a person with a level three certification and five years experience is going to be no where near as knowledgeable as a guy with the same certification and ten or twenty years experience.

My mistake. Vibesmith is correct. The ISO certification is valid for 5 years. Sorry.

Basically the worst PdM programme I've ever seen that had been running for 6 yrs was by a guy with ALL the certs (3 Vib + 1 Alignment) hanging on the wall beside the big monster TA wall chart.

To hire a person or contractor: I'd want resume', experience and references. Don't tell me how good you are; let someone esle.

Again, training is a good thing.

I think many have encountered practitioners who have high and reputable certification but wouldn't know where to start with practical application.

I am a consultant and certainly have clocked up nearly 20 years but would look less than ideal if I didn't have a certificate.

So there is certainly a place for certification, lets face it, an ISO level 2 or 3 is not a doddle to pass. Someone who can has aptitude and at least a starting ticket in my view. Add to that experience and it completes the picture.

We all start to drive cars with a license and if you are anything like me you will have had the odd scare or 3 and after years know better. We wouldn't want people without a license driving and also know that those with years of experience are less likely to show up on the road toll. So there is a place for it all and we shouldn't poo poo either (too much). In the end if it went to court of law, and whether it would make practical difference or not, the certificate will count. rgds.

I guess I need to just clarify two points.

1) The recertification is required every five years otherwise it is automatically expire just the calibration certificate. And this is genuine and makes sense. This practice is required and followed in many fields of specialty. VI does this through two options a) showing for an exam again or b) providing calculated evidence of active application of the knowledge (standard form from VI)
2) The validity within the five years is my concern. All the certifications I know are unconditionally valid during the entire period (5 year) except the VI certification which requires an active membership. Membership fees are required to keep the validity. Please refer to the copied part from the VI web site. http://www.vibinst.org/content.aspx?id=458

TERM of CERTIFICATION and RE-CERTIFICATION
Certification is valid for five years so long as fees are paid annually.

Now again, the current certification based on ISO is not really dependant on the VI internal regulations. Are the ISO certification issued though the VI valid for five years only the VI membership is paid?

WRT the value of experience, it is clear and agreed on that certification is not a guarantee that the certified is better (than the not yet certified) or even will be just good in doing the job. It is just like obtaining a degree, it does not guarantee.

Yes the certificate is only valid if you pay your dues every year. I am a Category 4 with the Vibration Institute and I pay annual dues to maintain it. Every 5 years I have to demonstrate continuing competence, or re-sit for the exam. That exam was a bugger, I would rather not resit for it.

When I was Level 3 in UT, MT, and PT, with ASNT I paid a fee to maintain that certificate as well. I am a PE in both Texas and Delaware and I pay an annual fee to maintain that as well.

What is your point? Seem pretty much standard practice, at least in the US.

On the other issue, I have found that the people that protest certification the loudest tend to be those who can't pass the tests.

There are indeed bad lawyers that have passed the bar exam. There are poor engineers that have passed the Charter requirements or the PE requirements, same with doctors. But in all those cases passing the exam is the minimum requirement. From there you judge on experience and demonstrated success. If I am looking at a resume to hire a guy and he has a Level I or Level II cert, I at least have some idea what his level of knowledge is. I have met plenty of guys with years of experience (and little training) that believe all sorts of crazy myths about our business (mis-alignment always shows 2X, if there is no 1/2X it can't be rub, etc).

I don't think it is ok to put my condition monitoring program in the hands of someone who can't answer simple questions about the source of signal errors, yet we as an industry very often stick a box in the hands of a guy and tell him to go figure it out, and we expect the CM program to save the company money somehow... at least a cert assures me that the guy has some training, and should at least have the basics down.

OK, open fire! I am sure I will get plenty of abuse on this one....

In my opinion Steve makes a bullet here. You are not a poor VA when you have the official papers... I know guys who has printed the learining book VA level2 in their heads and scored. But they didn't had any affinity whith turbo machinery for example, but only whith pumps (with all respect)!!
the best thing is to have convidence from your custumors/management and certificating is to let see your competence as an VA is earned!!

Did I hear FIRE?

Experience is difficult to judge, particularly on a resume. Time on the job is easy to judge and not necessarily of much value.

Having your piece of paper may get you in the door to talk to someone. Hopefully, from that they can make a better judgment.

Twenty years on the job doing the same thing does not qualify one to move to something different. It may show that you are safe enough not to get hurt, or just a survivor. I have worked with a number of people whose analysis would be backed up only by statements like, "I've been here xx years, and I know what this is," no need for technical stuff. I am more convinced that a problem needs looking into from an experienced operator who says it sounds odd.

Like Steve, I have seen that some of the people complaining about certification do not or could not obtain it. I have seen those with little or no education above secondary school work hard and master the certification. It can be done. It does help if one's employer assists by providing the needed training.

Below is a quote from Mobius showing that it does not require the certified analyst from them to pay annual fees. Again, my question is: is the annual fees required per the terms of iso or per the terms of the certifying body?



Period of validity
As per the standard, certification remains valid for five (5) years. You may take the exam again within the 5 year period, or you can provide evidence of continued activity and study in vibration analysis and your period of certification will be extended without examination.


Annual fees
As per the standard, annual fees are not charged in order to maintain the validity of your certification.

Below is another quote, from the Technical Associates web site, stating the position of the certifying organization on the annual fees to keep the validity of the ISO certification.

Question 2: Is a yearly fee required for me to maintain my ISO certification with Technical Associates?
Answer: No, Technical Associates has never charged yearly fees for any type of vibration analyst certification, Traditional TA, ASNT or ISO.