I'm in the process of evaluating Vb8 from Commtest as an alternative to upgrade the plant portable. Anybody has field experience with this analyzer, positive or negative? The vendor representative demonstrated the unit along with its software (Ascent) and we'll have a chance to use it in the plant.

For those who did not see the unit, below is a link for the details from the Commtest website.

Vb Page

Please share with us your view point.

I have a Vb7 which is the 2 two channel collector. I did get to mess with the Vb8 at Commtest during there training classes. Difference between the two, is the Vb8 is a 4 channel collector and can do 12800 lines of res. The Vb7 max res is 6400. The Ascent software is easy to use. Creating machines ,routes etc. Tech support has been very good.

I have not used the VB8, but I did use the VB7 for 2 years and also was an instructor for VB analyzers and Ascent software. I always compare it to the 2120/30s that I have used and taught for the last 20 years. In general, it compares well. Somethings VB/Ascent software handles more more easily, but some loss of "power" features compared to AMS/CSI.

I could go through each feature I like or dislike, but it may get too long winded for this thread. I would suggest trying it out for a dedicated 60 days of true setup and use in your situation. It does take awhile to get used to if you are using another analyzer currently.

Given the significant cost differences and friendlier upgrade policies, Commtest is a an excellent option and good value for some users.

Email me if you would like to discuss particulars or details of my experiences.

Hi Bill
I am going to purchase a vib analyser cum data logger cum balancer, presently i am using Vibrotest-60 and Vibroport-41.But due to some problem Vibroport is not working thts why i need another instrument. I am working in steel plant.
Now i am confused between three instruments CSI 2130, Vibxpert by Prufteknik and Vb 7
Can u suggest which instrument should i purchase. I am taking care of Turbo blowers, compressors and high speed fans in steel plant.
Please advise.

Tarun,

I have used all 3 of the analyzers and associated software you mention. Any one of these would be fine for what you are doing.

Some factors to consider:

1. 5 year cost of initial purchase and maintenance/support agreements. Training costs should be considered as well.

2. Is there local support for sales,training and "loaner" unit if yours needs repair.

3. Your needs from a technical perspective i.e. Will you do ODS/Modal impact testing, transient, special averaging techniques now or in the future? Some are better than others for these tests.

4. Will you ever install online monitoring equipment? Some systems integrate easier and cheaper than others.

5. Do you need good reporting/problem archiving capabilites? will you interface to a CMMS? One is fairly strong in this regard, while the others are not.

If at all possible, get a 60 day demo and actually use the equipment to get a feel for how hard or easy it is to get comfortable at taking good, useful data. Setup some machines and collect/analyze/report so you test the whole process.

I recently purchased (December 2009) a new Pruftechnik VibXpert data collector and software for my company after doing “very extensive” research on the different vibration instruments on the market today. I did review Commtest, CSI (Emerson Process) along with the Pruftechnik VibXpert, which is distributed by Ludeca that many associate with their Laser Alignment Systems that have been a mainstay in industry for many years.

As Bill very well pointed out, a lot depends on what you need the instrument/software to do. I can only speak from my experience in vibration analysis and my personal choice and hope the following information might be of some benefit to your decision-making. The thought process that I am using with this response is more in line with data collectors having advanced features that will have the capabilities and options to easily upgrade down the road if needed.

I am certain that anyone who has been involved in the field of vibration analysis the last 20 years has truly seen the technology evolve from the early days of the big IRD instruments to the current systems on the market today.

For over 30 years I was very blessed and honored to have had the opportunity to perform predictive technologies for General Motors and to travel throughout the corporation to other facilities. I was also a member of the GM Corporate Vibration Standards Committee for new and rebuilt equipment. The reason I am bringing this up is the fact it afforded me the opportunity & privilege to evaluate many different vibration analysis systems such as CSI, Pruftechnik VibXpert, and also Commtest. I now have a consulting business and much of my work is performing acceptance testing/certification of new or rebuilt equipment along with route-based condition monitoring surveys for different companies.

For many years, I personally used CSI products ranging from the 2110 to the 2130 and always felt and still feel they have a good product. But over the years they have really pushed or may I say, “forced” their “very expensive” maintenance support agreements upon their customers. I know there has been a lot of debate over the pros & cons of these support agreements, but as a business owner, this is a “very large” overhead that bottom-line effects my profits and what I have to charge my customers to offset this expense. I know as an independent consultant that even your larger corporations are becoming more focused as to how they can become more cost effective when investing in new equipment and the total overhead cost associated with maintaining their equipment during these trying times in our economy.

First and foremost in choosing a system is to have “full confidence” that it takes very accurate and consistent vibration measurements. Another important factor is the long-term total cost of ownership and technical support if ever needed. My personal criteria in choosing VibXpert over CSI and Commtest was the fact that over the years I have “never” had to pay for technical support or upgrades from Ludeca when using their Laser Alignment Systems such as the Optalign Plus & Smart or Rotolign systems. After talking personally with Ludeca and also their local sales rep, I feel they will have the same policy in regards to their Vibration Analysis Systems such as their VibXpert. I truly feel Ludeca is as “committed” to the Pruftechnik VibXpert Systems as they have been over the years with their Laser Alignment Systems and will be a mainstay in the Vibration Analysis field for many years to come. I have also noted the fact that many of their employees and sales rep consultants have been with Ludeca for many years, unlike some of the others. I have been very impressed with the research and development that both Pruftechnik and Ludeca have put into their Vibration Analysis Systems. At first, I was a little concerned with converting “large” existing databases to the VibXpert Omnitrend software system but have since found that it is very straightforward and simple to convert and create new databases with their software system.

And for what its worth, I recently had a few questions in regards to the VibXpert & Omnitrend software and was very impressed with Ludeca’s Technical Support and pleasantly surprised that I did not have to have a “maintenance support agreement” for technical support. I was also informed of a new software upgrade that will be coming out the next few weeks that will be “free” via the Internet. I never had that before with CSI.

I am “very satisfied” with the VibXpert System and feel it is an exceptionally high quality system that takes very clean, accurate data. The data collector is very easy to customize through either the unit itself or through the software. The more I use it I'm beginning to really appreciate the long battery life and the lightweight of the unit compared to the CSI 2130. One person commented on the lines of resolution with the Commtest of up to 12,800 lines. The lines with the VibXpert is practically unlimited, I think it’s something like up to 102,400 lines if needed, but keep in mind the more lines used during data acquisition will directly effect data acquisition time as with any instrument. I do recommend the purchase of the Spiral cable for ICP Accelerometers if you have any of the 2-pin sensors that are common with CSI or CTC products. I had many specialty ICP sensors from my old unit such as Low & High Frequency and Premium Series Accelerometers that I am able to use with my VibXpert. Either the Line Drive that comes standard with the unit or the ICP sensors work equally well.

Bottom line after evaluating the 3 different systems, the VibXpert came out on top for me personally when looking for a quality system at an affordable price of long-term ownership. One person who had several CSI units recently commented to me that the prices of his “maintenance support agreement” alone justified and allowed his company the purchase of a new VibXpert system.

I will not say great about the vibxpert system.It does the minimum functionalities and good about free upgrades. The following are the problems we face in case of vibxpert-

1) There was no be any technical support form our local supplier and from also Pruftechnik, Germany. You will not get any reponse for the mails. .The Pruftechnik has a culture of if you want, take it or leave it.

2)In low fequencies, if we keep F min as 1 HZ/2 Hz / 5 Hz , then the reading will be most erratic and exorbitant.

3) The vibxpert has a spec of resolution of 1,02,400 lines and I doubt.As I keep the 6400 lines , the resolution is not great.


At a minimal, the system is good.anyway, check for all the above points( their tall claims ) before buying.

For Commtest, there is no charge for tech support or updates. All are free of charge. Another option they have is the full cost trade up within 1 yr. One could initially purchase a VB7 for example, and within a year of purchase, trade up to a VB8, and just pay the difference. Not sure if the other manufactures have similar options.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Xracer,

Gevenag,

I’m sorry to hear of your problem with technical support from your local supplier and also from Pruftechnik. I can only speak of my experience from a perspective of being located in the United States and have been very satisfied with the support that I have gotten. I do know Ludeca, which is located in Miami, Florida is the distributor of Pruftechnik equipment for all of United States. I live in Ohio, but have talked to people in other states and feel that Ludeca and their local Sales Reps stay consistent throughout as far as support and free upgrades.

As far as lines of resolution, I typically only use 1600 or 3200 lines when running survey routes, just for the extra speed if I feel there is no direct conflict of having to separate closely associated frequency components. If you feel your display or resolution is not great, you might consider having your unit checked out. Without knowing what F/max you are going out to, using 6400 lines should give you great results if going out to perhaps 1000-1500 Hz. That would give you a bin separation of about .156-.234 Hz or 9.37-14.06 CPM. I have done side-by-side comparison with the VibXpert along side CSI using the same exact setup, and for me personally I think the resolution and display of the VibXpert looks exceptionally good compared to the CSI.

I did check with Ludeca and their policy is free updates and support for the life of the product. One other thing that I liked when I purchased my VibXpert was that it comes with all of the advanced features/modules but you only pay for and activate just what you want or need at the time of purchase. For instance, if you find out down the road you might need a feature such as balancing, you simply activate that option and register it “without” having to send your data collector back to Ludeca. At the time I did my evaluation comparison of the VibXpert, CSI and Commtest about 3 years ago, Commtest’s policy was that after 5 years from purchase, they would charge for upgrades and support as Ludeca’s policy was free updates and support for the life of the equipment and you don’t have to send the box back in to upgrade a feature or module. The only option that I didn’t get on my VibXpert at the time of purchase was a time domain “recording” feature that I might get in the future. I will only have to activate the module and register it after purchase.

Ludeca may be doing a better job as you told. The website of Ludeca is much better than Pruftechnik itself.A user needs more of technical support and the free upgrades comes after that.I am not against Vibxpert but sharing my experience with vibXpert.

quote:

Originally posted by rwonderly:
Gevenag,

At the time I did my evaluation comparison of the VibXpert, CSI and Commtest about 3 years ago, Commtest’s policy was that after 5 years from purchase, they would charge for upgrades and support as Ludeca’s policy was free updates and support for the life of the equipment and you don’t have to send the box back in to upgrade a feature or module. The only option that I didn’t get on my VibXpert at the time of purchase was a time domain “recording” feature that I might get in the future. I will only have to activate the module and register it after purchase.

For Commtest, it is a 5 yr hardware warranty, and unlimited support, software/firmware updates.

I've used entek Enpacs (which I still use a little with Ascent for remote sites) plus CSI 2120 but my day to day instrument is a VB8 which I've had for over a year and a half.
For day to day data collection I prefer a VB7 because both channels have a BNC connector. The VB8 requires that Lemo to BNC connector adaptor. I do not collect more than 2 channel on routine collection.
That said in using it as a contractor for commissioning or for diagnostics 4 channels is brilliant (long timewave forms, runs/down etc, cross channel phase, 4 channel balancing).
I also use triaxial measurements.
The VB instruments lack cross channel functionality prevent the use of modal hammers, coherence etc. Hopefully this will come soon...
Being able to use 3 channel 6 pack readings is cool also if you need a lot of data in a hurry.
I recently did some testing on crane winch motors and 3 stage gearboxes where the total cycle time was 20 seconds so I took 3, 6 pack readings per cycle even at 1600 lines it took less than half that time including ranging & settling impressive.
So I guess it depends on how often you require the extra channels for diagnostics. If you need to have a single instrument that covers diagnostics and data collection then this is a pretty good option.

i have worked with the VB5 and the VB7
the commtest has some difficuties but it`s workable, The ascent software is a pain in the ass, there are buggs in the software and also in the update`s firmware for the VB`s
however
commtest is doing its best to resove all the buggs. also within the company i am working we have a lot of VB5`s and 7`s they breakdown on a regular basis so we have to send them back to New Zealand
i would recomment to wait for a better version of ascent and commtest

greetz
Ronald

quote:

Originally posted by Cargill-cocoa PDM:
i have worked with the VB5 and the VB7
the commtest has some difficuties but it`s workable, The ascent software is a pain in the ass, there are buggs in the software and also in the update`s firmware for the VB`s
however
commtest is doing its best to resove all the buggs. also within the company i am working we have a lot of VB5`s and 7`s they breakdown on a regular basis so we have to send them back to New Zealand
i would recomment to wait for a better version of ascent and commtest

greetz
Ronald

What version of the software and firmware are you using? Why do you say the software is a pain? Collectors breakdown? I've had my VB7 for 2 yrs and have not had any issues.

I am using the ascent 2009r2 software and the 3.2.63 firmware.
the bugs are related to up and downloading the data. i got frequently a error and the data was not uploaded into the software.
this was a problem with the 3.3.36 firmware and the commtest hardware. it is resolved with another replacment of my VB5 for the 3d time.

greetz
Ronald