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OLI
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One of the fastest ways I know of for a bearing to fail w/o warning is if the plastic/"composite" cage split in 2 half's and it normally seize instantly. Olov


olov dot li at vtab dot se
www.vtab.se
 
Posts: 1014 | Location: Linköping | Registered: 03 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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SKF makes a composite cage bearing (called PEEK) for screw compressors (ammonia chillers) that they say are "designed" to provide trouble free service for "years".
We have had several fail at one customers. I have been at the rebuilders when the compressors were torn down, and saw the cages in pieces. SKF factory says the cages are broken by the service people taking them out of the bores. I know that to be wrong.
I am not a proponent of the composite cage bearings.

D
 
Posts: 1119 | Location: Marietta, Oh | Registered: 15 April 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Based on your spectra, I think you had BPFI, but the non-synchronous peaks are sidebands +/- 1 order of the fault frequencies. I had already recognized sidebands around harmonics of 9.35 orders before you pointed out the peak at 4.675 orders. Close enough.
 
Posts: 147 | Location: Carrollton, KY USA | Registered: 30 April 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Michael,thanks a lot!
I will try that.


GEPN
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great! Mechael!
Thanks a lot!!!
I think I should ask the maintenance guys to replace it.


GEPN
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Turbine,
Based on the spectra pattern and high magnitide random TWF you have a broken cage.

The standing out peaks in the spectrum still could be identified if you use sideband cursor and the highest peak as a reference.

IMO, it will be safe to call this bearing at this time. Please follow up with the results.
 
Posts: 1415 | Location: Texas | Registered: 22 February 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Our another engineer doesn't agree that it is a bearing failure. He assumes it as a impeller problem, as too many frequencies below 1X.And the cages is made of hard plastic
.
The idea from Mechael and David_G do work on the spectrums somehow. But there are still some other Peakvue acceleration such as 2x.


GEPN


PowerpointPP.ppt (152 KB, 49 downloads)
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Wouldn't an impeller problem show as synchronous to SS?
 
Posts: 201 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 12 January 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Turbine,

What version of CSI do you have? I would like to see the actual data if your version is not greater than 5.1. Smiler Can you extract it into a small database and email me?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ralph Stewart,


Thanks and Have a Great Day,
Ralph
Senior Analyst and Instructor
http://www.alertanalytical.com
 
Posts: 1561 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 01 March 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks so much!
I will send you.But version 5.3


GEPN
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
But version 5.3


Sorry,I can not open 5.3. I only have access to 5.1. and 5.1 will not open 5.3, I think. Smiler
Or will it, CSI?

If you could logon to our (Alert Analytical) networking feature, I could see and analyze it on your computer. Smiler


Thanks and Have a Great Day,
Ralph
Senior Analyst and Instructor
http://www.alertanalytical.com
 
Posts: 1561 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 01 March 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am with Ralph, the prior to failure data in the powerpoint screams bearing failure in progress to me. The persisent overheating suggests a thrust problem, and plastic cages do not cope well with such situations. Avoid plastic bearing cages like the plague.....

And with respect to the fact that the frequencies - which certainly have the appearance of a severe bearing fault - don't line up with calculated values, remember that the bearing in question is an angular contact bearing, and in the presence of excessive thrust loads, and a plastic cage, the contact actually changes from the standard, which of course modifies the defect frequencies.....
 
Posts: 105 | Location: memphis tn | Registered: 01 February 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Don Rainey:
I am with Ralph, the prior to failure data in the powerpoint screams bearing failure in progress to me. The persisent overheating suggests a thrust problem, and plastic cages do not cope well with such situations. Avoid plastic bearing cages like the plague.....

And with respect to the fact that the frequencies - which certainly have the appearance of a severe bearing fault - don't line up with calculated values, remember that the bearing in question is an angular contact bearing, and in the presence of excessive thrust loads, and a plastic cage, the contact actually changes from the standard, which of course modifies the defect frequencies.....



Thanks Don!

Thanks all that help me!!

We will change the bearing soon.

A result will be attached soon.


GEPN
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks all that help me!
We changed the bearing today and can't see any defect from the bearing.
A new bearing was installed and the pump is normal now.

Attached the spectrums before and after failure for any body need to learn.


GEPN


 
Posts: 28 | Location: Singapore | Registered: 28 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Turbine:

We changed the bearing today and can't see any defect from the bearing.


Was the brg disassembled?

I ask because at times it can be hard to see an inner race defect with the brg intact.
 
Posts: 147 | Location: Carrollton, KY USA | Registered: 30 April 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would stay away from plastic cages, they can fail in just a few days if you have cavitation.
Check with the manufacturer, it is probably supposed to have steel or bronze cages. But of course the real fix is to stop the cavitation.
Any time you see a peak of the FTF, suspect a cage fault. They are always low amplitude, and the machine will be very noisy.
 
Posts: 4 | Location: OK | Registered: 16 July 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This bearing cries for an analysis. I would have it torn down and inspected (or inspected torn down and inspected). Otherwise, it seems premature to call it a bearing failure.


Regards,
Bill

 
Posts: 1611 | Location: Houston, TX USA | Registered: 23 February 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Turbine:
Thanks all that help me!
We changed the bearing today and can't see any defect from the bearing.
A new bearing was installed and the pump is normal now.

Attached the spectrums before and after failure for any body need to learn.


Turbine, my question what is cause of bearing defect?
 
Posts: 60 | Location: Banten, Indonesia | Registered: 01 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex J:
I have seen similar cases in the past. If you go back and display spectrum in g's up to 5kHz you'll see a hump at higher frequencies ~4kHz. These are caused by numerous micro cracks developing on the races. At this stage energy is low and looking in velocity spectrum you'll not see it. When these micro cracks develop into bigger ones the hump on the spectrum starts shifting into lower frequencies (less bigger cracks on the races). Some time the edges of these cracks are getting smoothed out by the passing balls and vibration level drops. It's a major warning signal that next jump will be exponential.
You mentioned hot bearings. Do you have adequate oil viscosity at the operating temperature? Maybe you should try synthetic oil with higher VI? The oil mist should also lower your bearing temperature.

Alex J,
Would you like to share your data(spectrum) about your cases, please?
 
Posts: 60 | Location: Banten, Indonesia | Registered: 01 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm sorry but I don't have access to the database from my previous job.
 
Posts: 209 | Location: Baytown, TX | Registered: 17 March 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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