Greetings(almost seasonaly)
Does anyone have experience using the Monarch Pocket Tach 200 with a 2120.I am looking into buying a unit that can be used by anyone but is capable of interfacing with a 2120 or hopefully a 2130 if the budget gets the nod.Feedback from other units that meet this criteria are more than welcome.The price is very reasonable which has me wondering about quality.I would prefer C.S.I's unit but it is not a stand alone unit.But if the monarch performs well at the stated price I might be able to afford both and have the speedvue all for myself.Looking forward to any and all comments Thanx

Monarch has been THE industry standard for 30 yrs as far as I know and is of good quality. If the unit specs out to meet your criteria, then go for it.

Link to Pocket Tach 200 info and pricing:
http://www.reliabilitydirect.com/tachometerproducts/MON-PT200.htm. Unlike speedview sensor, this will need reflective tape.

Also need MON-6280-037 input/output cable, 3.5 mm mono plug to BNC, 6': $35.00.

Lee, I have 2 of the Pocket Tach 200's... for the money, it is hard to beat. They don't have quite the range (distance from target) as the stand-alone IRD 198F that I also use, but they don't cost $1300 either. I have used the 200 successfully triggering off a protruding key. The only limitation I've run into is taking "coast down" phase readings while balancing.... the 200 doesn't seem to be able to keep up with the speed changes like my 198F does. But for general phase analysis and balancing, the Pocket Tach 200 is hard to beat for the money. I do not keep mine in a case, and I've not had any reliability problems. They seem pretty rugged.

As for the SpeedVue, it is an absolutely essential tool if you check variable speed equipment with a 2120 or 2130. I am still amazed that it works so well. But it is NOT a tach.... it will not give you a TTL signal like other tachs will. I am told that with the right cable you can make it function as a tach, but CSI does not -- and cannot -- sell such a cable, or tell you how to do it. It is sold only as a "speed sensor" and only works with the 2120/2130. I believe this dates back to some lawsuits between CSI and TEC (the forerunner of CSI). TEC originally built/sold the 198F before they were bought out by IRD (I think). I know IRD sells the 198F now, or did a few years ago.

I can't believe some of the vendors haven't jumped in and made the patch cable to convert the SpeedVue output to TTL. I've seen the schematic to build it but I'm not electronically inclined or maybe I'd sell them on Ebay or something.

Using the SpeedVue as a 'tach' probably violates some legal agreement that CSI has with TEC.

"TEC originally built/sold the 198F before they were bought out by IRD (I think). I know IRD sells the 198F now, or did a few years ago."

Rusty,

Unfortunately they no longer sell the lasetach 198F. Someone made a bad decision in my opinion. That tach is the berries for balancing from a long way off (dust, high vibes, etc).

I bought a 200 as a backup to the 198F. The 200 works very well for balancing. I did get about 20 feet range with it and a piece of tape on a blued shaft.

I also bought on the Monarch "pocket strobes. For what i wanted to use it for (speed, slow motion studies, etc.) it also seems to work very well. They both appear to be fairly rugged, and for the price, they are hard to beat.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Using the SpeedVue as a 'tach' probably violates some legal agreement that CSI has with TEC.

I'm sure it does. But I don't have a legal areement with CSI or TEC. If I knew how to put one together, I'd make one. If I knew how to put a lot of them together, I'd sell them. I'll start working on that after I get my garage cleaned out.

I have tried in my limited electronic ability and it is more complicated than just wiring the correct pin to the tach input on the 2120.

I have also tried it with a ttl pulse convertor and been able to get it to work as a tach, but not as well as the standard photo-tach.

I would welcome the input of someone more electronic-savy than me and would be happy to share the details of what I have tried.

I was under the impression that the one TEC utilized in the black box with TEC on it was actually manufactured by Monarch and worked great just like the $300 Monarach unit. I had one of the TEC units and a Monarch as well and though they were one in the same. Like a CSI transducer; they were manufactured by Wilcoxn, may still be as far as I know.

I have a CSI 404 and 404B and they work with reflective tape but I haven't seen one work without reflective tape.

Sam,

They don't work without tape as far as I know. Not even with reflective paint by my experience.

That is exactly the same result I got in trying to make the SpeedVue Sensor work as a tach.

Danny

Am I right in thinking that the pocket 200 does not require the use of reflective tape.This is the main feature I am looking for in this type of equipment.Due to the companies latest push in safety we now have so many pieces of eqipment behind guards.It means anyone who wants to go past the guards has to lock out before going in,so something that works without reflective tape is the only answer to finding speeds while the machine is in motion.The fact that our profession needs the machine to run to do the type of work we perform was not thought of when all this legislation was passed.Sorry got a little off topic.Thanks to all for the input as i know this subject has been broached before.

If you just want to find the running speed, you cannot beat the SpeedVue if you have the 2120/2130. The 200 will sometimes work without the tape.... I've not tested this extensively... I'll do some checking today and get back to you. I also carry a small strobe (PK2) on my tool belt. If I know about what the speed is, it's usually faster to use it than even the SpeedVue.

Update.... I tried the 200 without tach tape on a number of machines and was not able to get any kind of stable reading. You will either need tach tape, or a very prominent key protrusion to get a stable signal. I've not had any luck with the "silver" paint markers either.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rustythevibeguy,

Thanks Rusty this is the info I was looking for.It seems that this option though does not work as well as it should.I do also have a strobe I use quite often.This was intended to be a tool for all to use but, according to this info we will wait to see if industry advances over the next while with respect to having this option work on a more consistent basis.Do you venders out there hear this we know you are watching so let's get a move on to see who will be the first to back up their claims with an actual working model that performs to what is expected of it.We here in the feild are trying to promote to our co-workers the need to have these technologies and how user freindly these units can be.So when we are told that a unit is capable of performing certain functions we should not have to explain that these, these, and these conditions limit the products performance.I find they give you the this is all hokus pokus mumbo jumbo stuff just like you told me all those squiggley lines mean my bearing is failing even though I do not hear or feel anything with my screwdriver and ear.So basicly what I am saying is don't profess that a product does something in the lab but not in the feild.I cannot buy equipment based on this type of info.If it where not for this and other boards providing real info.I would probably have spent my dime and been mad and dissappointed that I purchased an improvement to my tool kit and got something I already have.
Do not take this as a rant Just a heads up to the needs of the guy in the feild trying to have the best tools he can get to provide a proffesional assessment based on the information gathered from his equipment.I realize the leaps and bounds this industry has taken over the last 5-10 years,still in it's infancy with respect to alot of industries.and sometimes the race to first place cuases a little rush to the market place.WHEW!! i think I burnt a couple of cells on that one. Thanks again guys for all your input.

lee,

While I agree that there should be a product like you describe, in fairness to CSI, they don't advertise the SpeedVue Sensor as a tachometer, just a speed sensor. If you ask any of their sales people that is the official line on the product.

Like Rusty said, (with practice) it is very good as a speed sensor and I use it on most of my variable speed equipment. There is a popular notion out there that it is easily converted to a tachometer that will trigger off of most any shaft without marking the shaft. My experience has been otherwise.

I bought it because I wanted to be able to do order tracked readings on paper machine rolls and drives (especially low speed stuff) without having to explain that step one was to shut it down for 30 seconds so I can put on this little piece of tape. Something that works like that sure wold be nice.

Dan I agree with what you say about the speedvue this was directed at no particular manufacturer just a general hit in all directions.I am a firm C.S.I. user and until something with a whole lot of better comes along I will continue to use and support their equipment.And I will still buy the speedvue to use and maybe with all the prior statements about trying to convert it to function as a tach someone or company might acheive that goal.Keep your fingers crossed cause the amount of knowledge flying around this board I am sure at some point we will have an easy way to do this with the speedvue.

A tach - any tach - has to have a once per rev signal, and that is EVERY revolution. To achieve this, you have to have a strong signal that is consistent.

However, the SpeedVue doesn't really need a clear, once per rev signal because it takes a bunch of cyclical events, performs an FFT on the signal, and generates a spectrum from it.

It's really 2 different processes. But, IF you use a piece of tach tape, I can't imagine why the SpeedVue wouldn't give you a nice, sharp 1/rev pulse.....

It would appear to me that if 1X were derived from an algorithym the spectra would suffice. Generally it is evident from the frequency spectrum what the speed actually is or it is using acceleration.

I'm not sure about following the FFT idea on a tach signal. But you can feed the tack signal into the input of your RTA and have an exacting look at RPM with as high a resolution as you wish since it's below 20V.

Sometimes on slow moving stuff you can shoot the reflective tape on via a rubber band flip or one of the little toy dart guns. Sometimes visiting machine during break time is a good thing.

Rusty,

About your last comment; why haven't you tried a piece of reflective tape with Speedview sensor?

Sam,

Speedview does give 1xSS speed by doing a spectrum. As you know, a true 1xSS tach not only gives speed but phase by detecting a unique marker at a fixed position on shaft/rotor.

My guess is that to make Speedview into a true tach, you would need a distinctive marker on shaft and a circuit to create a clean 1xSS TTL-compatible pulse from the Speedview output. In this case it would be like making a sow's ear out of a silk purse! I guess that two tools are needed in the tool box.

Walt

Walt, tach tape works very well with the SpeedVue sensor, but it still gives you harmonics in the spectrum since it also 'sees' everything else on the shaft. A spectrum IS the output from the SpeedVue... it does not give you 'RPM' as such. What's nice about the SpeedVue is you don't need tach tape, an exposed key, or really anything distinctive on the shaft.

I have not attempted to look at the SpeedVue output with a o'scope, so can't say what it really looks like.

Seems like I've heard of a "pulse conditioner"... is that an off-the-shelf item?

Would something like this work?
http://www.kep.com/catalog/flow/pdf/sc-ff.pdf