Mostly these days I sit as an incumbent for Rio Tinto Alcan but still have clients from the 1980's.

Sharing an experience that I have never forgotten: Paper mill near Ashville, NC. Was called in to do an analysis on one of the drives (calendar stack? - long time ago). I gathered my data - while there in-house guys looked on. After some time I said it appeared to be "specific problem". They had told me they were into it (had done analysis and with maintenance had inspected it) and had gone through the item and knew all was in great condition and certainly no problem there as they were with the maintenance people and inspected everything, every move. So I told them it sure looked like that the problem sat squarely there. They said, no way; so, I spent the rest of the day try to make sense of all data and pin-point a problem. By process of elimination I centered and located the potential problem and issued a report. A couple of weeks later they said they found the problem and of course it was the first thing I said that they insured was GREAT! And then they complained about the bill saying I had not mentioned that specific item as a problem. Another firm said they did that regularly to get out of the bill or get it reduced.

Have any of you had similar experiences? I've had a number try to lead me astray but this is the only one that actually did get bitten by. Just wandering Any stories?

Why is there jealously or am I seeing it wrongly.

Well there are those cases that thorn the ego where something was learned. Old story, bow prop drive gen, direct connected to main gbx by shaft on a ro-ro ship. It´s unbalance said the gen rep., same said shore consultant. I said if that´s the case i can balance it on board just as good or better as if you cut the deck open and balance it in a balancing machine. I was supposed to get 12-15 hours to do that at the destination so I got to the loading dock and got the time from when I arrived until the ship was leaving as another hi speed ferry had to go to dock to weld down the superstructure as it was falling off... So I got a quick check, it was a hell of a noise starting and stopping but running was smooooth. I got my first weight calculated and about to mount it when the chief said, you delayed the departure your 45 minutes, we leave now, back off, you will have no chance to get off or do anything more. So I went on to the destination and back, could not do anything further as they disconnected the drive and would not run with it. So I went packing. I got no other chance, gen was lifted later and there was no, zero, none rotating parts left in the gen drive side bearing. It was held in place when running by the driveshaft, it scratched a bit starting and stopping but at running it was just rotating a bit off center giving unbalance otherwise it was dead silent. Shore maintenance was not happy paying the bill for nothing as they saw it. I did not back off but sent a book series we have on maintenance and vibrations as a consolation or much needed reading. So bearings that are dead silent, watch out. Olov

Sam,

I once did a job similar to the one you described. Called in late one sunday night to help detect a noise problem from a client that our company had worked with for approx 5 years. I was asked to find the source of the noise. After a 2 hour drive too get to the site I started asking some simple questions (like what has changed since the previous survey etc). As always nothing had been done from memory. As I walked to the machine I passed the fitter and electrician coming back from the area where the machine was so I asked the same questions and would you know it they had changed some things. An additional fan had been set up and was vibrating against the gaurd causing all of the noise.
Now this was a simple fix and very easy for me, however the engineer that rang me must of felt a little embarassed because when he got the bill for the 4 Hours of travel for that sunday night shift and the standdown time (total cost to him $850)he too came back with the you didn't do anything so why should we pay?
If only he had the respect for his workers then possbly he could have saved some money and I would have got my sleep!
No order number no job! This has been the accepted protocol here in Newcastle for the past 5 years or so.

So Sam I don't know if it is a jealosy problem, I think some times people are frightened of admitting they could be wrong or have stuffed up.

Hooch

Every day Sam, every day!
Everyone wants the solution and it cannot cost money or take time to implement. Many times they choose to keep running and call you out regularly to "take more data", maybe it really is something that we can make an on-line adjustment to fix. Frustrating!

I've heard of an engineer laying hands on a machine. Have your tried that Mark?

I once drove across NC to look at a direct drive boiler ID fan that was vibrating. I had balanced the fan approx. 6 months earlier.

I got out, and looked at the boiler motor. One of their maintenance staff, with good intentions, had placed rubber isolators under the motor feet. When I asked why, I was told that they had just got a sheet of isolator material, and thought it would be good to put under their motors - to help the bearings last.

I had them remove the isolator material, which had shimmed up the fan anough to cause a pretty serious rub, as you might imagine.

9 1/2 hour drive for 15 minutes of work.

They paid, but didn't call back for a couple of years!

My father was called to a heatplant that had trouble with a turbine vibrating. He took some readings but did not find anything special just in that moment so he packed up and just went past the machine, a radial counter rotating device, and put his hand on it and in the same second it completely broke down to smithereens. Rotors for that kind of machine is like 3-400 K US$ now plus production loss. Talk about engineer putting his hand on machine... He was not welcome back to that site for some years. Olov

The only job that I ever did that I didn't get paid for was similar to that.

I made the mistake of pointing out the design flaw in my clients drive base only to be blamed for the entire problem before HIS client. My client is now out of business (No big surprise there. Bad ethics always catch up.)

The irony is that the job was done on Sept. 8, 2001 at the boiler house in the Pentagon. 3 days later, the plane barely missed that building on its way.

These situations don't always turn out badly for the consultant.

Both examples are in days before digital vibration instruments.

On one occasion, I was called out at midnight to a salt mine located about 200 km from my office. A new belt driven fan had quite large vibration and noise. I walked around the fan and noticed that the fan base had high vibration at one corner with a broken anchor bolt at the same location. I borrowed a hammer and screw driver from a millwright and tapped the screwdriver under the base at that location and the loud noise and high vibration disappeared. Six months later, the screw driver was still there. When the noise and vibration increased, they would tap the screwdriver until calm was restored. I spent 15 minutes in the plant and the customer was happy.

On another occasion, I was called to a local plant to check a machine, an turbine driven Elliot single stage compressor with a gearbox between the turbine and compressor, that I had balanced a few months before. I found that it did have have high radial and axial vibration. While I went to my car to get my strobe light to confirm misalignment and everyone else had walked away from the machine to arrange to shut it down, one of the compressor mounting bolts broke and the machine disintegrated like a bomb has exploded, sending pieces though a roof 20 meters above the machine. It seems that they had discovered that the bolt was loose the day before and, as ordered by the plant junior engineer, had been tightening the bolt every two hours. The engineer tried to blame me but his bosses disagreed and fired him. He got his revenge by disparaging me to his uncle, the boss of a sugar mill which was the only place that would hire him. The mill had been a small but steady customer which had been a steady customer; I lost that account which was not much of a loss, a few hours work every year..

Plenty of debris was found; fortunately none of the debris was blood-stained.

Sam: Here's a good read:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/110804factsstraight.htm

Sam,
Amazing how lucky you are!!
Gary Player was said to be lucky as well - but he correlated his luck to how much practice he did. He used to say "the more he practised the luckier he got".
Regards
Steve

Nice link Dave. I'm sure the US government paid all those eye witnesses to lie.

The conspiracy theory wackjobs will never quit.

Companies, People... no difference... We show our character by our actions and reactions.

Mike

Sam,

Maybe people would be more impressed if you had a big tool belt. Do you have tool belt envy? At least one consultant's is bigger than yours.

I've noticed! Never had a tool belt; boo hoo.

Wear a size 46 jacket, have an attache and shirt w/pockets though. Calculator/pocket PC, stop watch, taper gage, leatherman - no need for a tool belt. A hunters vest may be of some help if I had more to carry or a larger gun. But generally know what I will be doing and what I need at the sight. An alignment kit in attache case form when the rare event occurs - generally just supervise.

But with regard to one consultant's being bigger than mine; basically what I hear is that everyone has one bigger than mine.

Liberated from Fiddler on the Roof.

If I had a tool belt,
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
If I only had a tool belt.
I wouldn't have to work hard.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If I were a biddy biddy rich,
Yidle-diddle-didle-didle man.

I'd build a big tall house with rooms by the dozen,
Right in the middle of the town.
A fine tin roof with real wooden floors below.
There would be one long staircase just going up,
And one even longer coming down,
And one more leading nowhere, just for show.

--------------

We could use some of that fancy plywood for the floors, if I had a tool belt.

Bill,

You need to get out more.

At last it is Friday. I saw a song in another thread. The chorus is great.



If I had a tool belt,
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
If I only had a tool belt.
I wouldn't have to work hard.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If I had a biddy biddy tool,
Yidle-diddle-didle-didle belt.

It is growing on me. If only Zero were here - wait a minute- knock at the door.

How R-ya? Da da ya da da da do.