Hello,

I just finished reading all the literature that came with the recent up-grade to 5.1 and am hesitant to install the upgrade. We are currently running RBMware 4.9

My biggest concern is all the new tools that come with 5.1 with no mention of any of our old tools.

The backbone of our vibration program is the use of autoplot found within diagnostic plotting. We use autoplot in multiple spectrum mode, going through the route that we just took. When we see a change, then we start to analyse.

Are the old programs still available in the new version? It would be very time consuming to have to go through an area or route one point at at time, having to reselect with the mouse moves. Much nicer just tapping a key to get to the next point.

As well, in the literature that came with the upgrade, it shows a water fall plot from within what used to be called vibpro. (new name is Advanced Vibration Analysis Applet) Is that true, can we get a waterfall out of the long wave form? That would be nifty.

What are your opinions on the upgrade?

Thanks,

Henk.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Henk v.,

Henk,

Long time, no hear.

The short answer, yes. Look under tools and you will find everything you are used to.

For longer answers do a search here and you will find lots of stuff.

Henk,
I just received an email from Emerson Process Management with a link to a tutorial on 5.1
http://www.mhm.assetweb.com/
On this web page there is a link that will take you to the tutorial. It says it is for support customers but it did not ask me for proof of that even though we have a support agreement. But I did not go all the way into the presentation so at some point it may ask for proof of your aggreement.
Just thought you might find something helpful here.

Ronnie

Thank you for your replies, much appreciated.

Yep, it's been a while since I visited. Lots of good info here, did a search as you suggested and found the info I was looking for. The tools we use are still in place.

I get the tutorials of the web page suggested. No need to log in, anyone can view them. They all dealt with the new tools and how they worked. Nothing about the old stuff.

We got to thinking that if the tools we want haven't been improved and we probably won't use the new ones, what's the point of upgrading. We are going to hold off for a bit.

I phoned CSI and asked about the upgrade. Then asked about the future of plotdata and was told, same as someone else said, that they are planning of phasing plotdata out over the next few releases. I guess it's their business. Too bad for us.

Thanks for your help.

Henk

quote:

they are planning of phasing plotdata out over the next few releases

What was their reason?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PLOTDATA?

My guess is they will be out of business over "the next few releases". But who knows? It took about 10 years to get from 4.0 to 5.0.

I think Plotdata must work too well. We can't have that. Seriously though, I am trying really hard to get used to the new Vibration Analysis set up but so far I don't care for it. I have to work way to hard to get the data setup the way I want and sometimes I can't find what I'm looking for. It seems like this latest version has been improved some but I there is still along way to go. I understand that CSI says they will leave plotdata in service until the VA program has all the same functions. I sure hope so.

quote:

it shows a water fall plot from within what used to be called vibpro.

pardon my ignorance but what is a waterfall plot? we have been offered the 5.1 version with our support agreement renewal and am interested in this thread to read the pros and cons of it.

Jonesy,
What are you doing with MHM? We had some problems in version 4.9 with one of our online systems talking to Delta V. Version 5.1 has a fix in it for our problem. As far as collecting data with my 2130 and analyzing data, I go straight to the tab that gives me the old look and feel. The plots in the new version are too small to really see anything in without a lot more mouse clicks.

David Eason

I have toyed around with the 5.1 and the new diagnostic plotting module.

From classes attended, I think it is set that Plotdata.exe will go away in the future, from what I believe is CSI's standpoint, all our begging to keep plotdata.exe will not help.

Instead, I think we the users should begin looking at the demos, trying the new diagnostic plotting feature and emailing CSI with improvement ideas.

If they listen and provide autoplot functions, with multiple and single plots, by route, database, etc as we are used to, I could see the new module being of some improvement.

With the single, secondary, and tertiary windows provided, if autplot was available, along with having options of using dual monitors, I could see this new module going places.

Without changes I think it will be a flop!

my humble opinion.

Mike

Doing away with autoplot is about the worse thing to come along since doing away with the function keys in the first "windows" version back in the early 90's. Of course with hard fought battles with the "ole" programmers, us old users got some of these back.

Is someone controlling programming who does not use the software except in an office that never really analyzes real data and taking advice from some end user who doesn't do much more?

Where are the "ole" CSI employees? Have they all retired?

Hi Jonsey,

A waterfall plot is just a bunch of spectrum stacked on top of each other.

Do a google search using the words: waterfall, plot, vibration -- and you'll see lots of examples.

Vibepro lets a user take long duration waveforms (up to a few hours) and then analyse that wave form. You can place a cursor anywhere on the waveform and generate a spectrum. It helps to capture transient events.

Being able to do a waterfall plot from a large section of the wave form will make it easier to visualize whats happening to the equipment over a period of time. An additional troubleshooting tool.

Hope I didn't make the water muddier.

Having programmers without real world experience in use the programs make decisions about interfaces, etc. is unfortunately quite common.

..and the axe is ground again!

Bill - I've worked with my company's programmers and several other companies programmers. "Real programmers" often have many of the mental and emotional characteristics as schizophrenics and and autistics; they need supervision by managers and their decision making needs to be limited; any company that uses programmers needs to understand this.

Another point that is often a factor in software design is that some companies are not in the consulting business; I have no idea whether CSI is in the consulting business or not. A company either needs to have have their own in-house product users and listen to them or else get major input from their customers or both. Again, I have no idea what CSI does but from some of the comments from the other people in this thread, this may be an issue.

Ralph, presumably a CSI user, asked a question in his last post; is there someone who can answer it?

One item that has been discussed extensively on this board is that companies that were specialists in vibration are being bought by companys whose main interest is in process control and monitoring and not portable insturnent based monitoring and diagnostics; this unfortunately has rather predictable result for the end users.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Duncan Carter,

quote:

Again, I have no idea what CSI does..

Exactly.

Bill,

Does your blind support for CSI have more to it than is obvious?

I have found that most programmers are not users and that most users are not programmers. I think Duncan is probably an exception to this observation. This indicates that Team Effort is needed to get a good software product. One cannot overlook the value of good feedback and the willingness to make changes. Management of the almighty dollar can sure screw up a good technical effort!

Walt

Walt - I'm now an ex-user because I really don't have time to consult anymore. My last consulting job happened about three years ago and ended with a recommendation to loosen fan belts which stopped the waves splashing in the water cooler in the office below. I'm an electrical engineering graduate of LSU and have worked as an radio engineer. I also am a ham radio operator, first licensed in 1953 and also licensed as a radio broadcast engineer beginning in 1957; this licensing required an extensive knowledge of modulation and demodulation topics. I started in the vibration business in 1970 managing an outside agency for IRD doing sales, service, and consulting. As a consultant, I've used a mix of commercially made hardware and my own hardware. I started to learn programming 20 years ago to make my own software for PC based vibration diagnostics. I'll be 67 years old in a few weeks and I've definitely been around the block more than once.

Management ignoring it's own in-house users is nothing new. Norm Enz, who was the head of IRD's consulting service around 1970, complained bitterly about the design of the 350 which did not include an accelerometer input; his consultants had to drag around 340's for their diagnostics because they knew needed acceleration for bearing and gearbox testing. Having me show him the accelerometer/envelope detector that I added to my 350 on a 2 inch square internal circuit board didn't help his unhappiness with his management. I first learned about using envelope detection for bearing analysis from Norm; he had compiled an in-house consultant's manual that mostly had reprints of technical articles from various journals and included several on using accleration and envelope detection for diagnostics with the early displays being oscilloscopes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Duncan Carter,