Good day all,
Ok, my company have recently bought a Bently Nevada Adre 408 analyzer. We were previously using the adre 208 without any problems. I was very happy with adre 208 but we assigned this equipment to be permanantly placed at one site as part of a maintenance contract.

So now after getting used to adre 208, I'm now scratching my head familiarising myself with the 408 and it's new sxp software. I went to one site yesterday to test it out but I have to say I found it very difficult to operate. The software in particular seems to be designed with confusion in mind!

I would be interested to hear the views and opinions of other adre users.

Thanks
Moyes

If it's any thing like System 1 good luck.
We're looking at replacing our 208's at this moment. Still wondering if we should use the 408's or to buy something different. Vendors are welcome to contact me.
Sorry I wasn't much help.

The system 1 software taht the new adre is based on is almost impossible to use. Good luck

Bob K.

hey waylon,

how's everything going? are you dried out yet?

send me your email address at marty at sereliability dot com

regards,
marty wilkins

Thanks for comments so far. Would still like to hear from users of the new 408 adre as to what they think?

Cheers

pl note that 498 is very simple s e that 208 only thing what u have in 208 in menu u get tha same thing in 408 in different page.that's all is about.it is replica of system one and u collect data w'o pc.create a data base and down load to 408xp and store nable to collect data.all ur 2068 data will be changed to 408 data once if go to convert data base still if u find it hard enroll for three day course = palani

quote:

Originally posted by Moyes:
The software in particular seems to be designed with confusion in mind!
Moyes

Just remember that you are not dealing with the old Bently Nevada anymore, you are dealing with GE. Their goal is to make money, not to make things easy. System1 software, for example, is so bloated, confusing, and overly complicated, that GE doesn't even offer a class to the USER on configuration. Their own engineers have to go to class for weeks to be able to configure it. What GE gets from this is more money. You buy the software from them, then you pay them to configure it for you.

I am an ADRE 208 user and a System1 user. I have no intention of upgrading to 408 if it is anything like System1.

Just my 2 cents

Has anyone done (and is willing to share) a formal evaluation of the available diagnostic hardware like a 408/ADRE and IOtech Zonic Book? I'm considering a purchase and want to make an informed choice, but don't want to re-invent the wheel if it is already out there and available.

Liked the 208, have not used the 408. Have used the Zonic Book. It seems to be a powerful system that is competitively priced. For those looking for transient analysis, Zonic book is definately worth a look for comparison:
http://www.iotech.com/catalog/daq/zonicbook.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave G.,

I have not used the 408, but have heard it is quite powerful. I am not endorsing the product, but I see a person who represents Bently competitors recommending other products and making a comment that they have not heard great things about the System 1. This seems unfair.

The most negative thing that I have heard about the new ADRE is the price for a system. If you are a consultant (in house or outhouse) you have to make both the technical and the financial justification. Typically for a large company one job could pay for equipment like this.

Do the specs for the ADRE do everything that I would want? Probably not, but the raw capabilites seem to be there. Most people on the board don't seem to do transient analysis regularly, so it might not be justifiable for many. For more in depth consultants, it might, but they woould need to evaluate the option.

I find it distasteful for a representative of the competition to slam one vendor and recommend another product without direct knowlege of the one in question.

FYI: I sell no products; my company sells oil.

Moyes,

I have been an infrequent user of our ADRE 208. Our company purchased a 408 recently...we've used it once. I've practiced a few hours on a rotor kit. I also attended the 4-day trainning session on the 408 in Minden.

I am impressed with most things I've figured out up to now with our 408. I am generally not intuitive with newly introduced operating software. Everybody around me seems to figure things out more quickly than I. So...it would have been absolutely impossible for me to have figured out the 408 enough to operate it without the class. I'm sure there are smart people out there that could just pick this thing up an go...but not me.

An earlier post indicated that GE offers no class on configuring the 408. I took such a class last February...I assume they still offer it.

I believe the 408 is powerful and flexible. Certainly more than the 208. You are not limited to 2560 data points. Each survey is limited only by the storage capacity of the 408 internal hard-drive...over 30 GB. You are not limited to one waveform sample for every 10 vector samples. It is completely configurable to whatever you want. Dynamic range and sample frequency is superior to the 208. You don't need an external laptop to collect a survey...the 408 box stands on its own. A laptop is still required for configuration and more sophisticated commands...but simpler commands may be performed directly from the 408 box without a laptop interface. The box will collect data without a laptop...allowing the operator to drag his laptop off to his desk and review data while data collection continues. The 408 is not, however, battery operated (as was it's predecessor). It requires AC power. Many of the students wished it could power accels...which it cannot.

I took the one week class and feel that I can set up a survey, collect data, and review results. I believe there remain many features that I know nothing about. The 408 project development project manager was present for the class. I believe him to be very competent, have a lot of energy, pretty intolerant of bullshit, and eager to meet customer needs. So...however screwed up most people think GE is (or was when I took the class), it wasn't obvious to me with regard to the 408.

I wrote up a deskguide for our group's use of the 408. It may offer some insight. Email me at 'gxd1 at pge dot com' if you would like a copy. I'll send it when I return to work on Tuesday.

I am a consultant, not a hardware vendor, and have used 208's since before they came out (used to work for BNC) and System 1 extensively (every day), including setting it up for customers. I do a lot of transient analysis for balancing work and always have to hook up my 208's to do a startup/shutdown because it is impossible to get the data out of System 1 and on to a piece of paper. Has anyone ever seen a System 1 polar plot? System 1 does its own "sample filtering" where it decides if the data is important enough for you to see. One 408 is 2.5X the price of a 208 and needs AC power, no battery, fine in a control room but a pain out in a refinery. The 408 can have more channels but of course they are extra cost. It does have a wider frequency range for spectrums but still does not anti-alias filter the "synchronous" signal so be careful of foldback when doing spectrums with accelerometers.

Bob K.

I use the 208, 408 and System 1 all the time. I use to have a heck of a time getting data from System 1, until I learned how to use it (that's not meant to be a cheap shot) which took a considerable amount of time. I prefer using System 1 for machine trains that have both proximity and velocity transducers, because you can get absolute vibration data extremely easily – great for balancing. I use polar plots from System 1 all the time.

I would agree in part to your 408 comments, but remember it would take 3 208s for the same number of channels (3 dynamic cards and 1 keyphasor card), that's how I justified the cost. The jury is still out on the 408, especially how well it will hold up.

There are a few things I do like. For instance; I can take "low" resolution waveforms for startups and get good data during rapid startups, while having a separate set of high resolution for steady state conditions without having to create a new database. I like the fact that I don't have to start a new database each time I take new data on the same machine train. I like the fact that I can look at any data, while taking data, without have to stop the database.

I think one big problem that Bently's going to have, is the amount of thought that is required to really use the benefits of the 408. Customers that are used to simple selections to setup their equipment are going to have a lot problems. This may show up as people complaining how difficult their software is to use.

Bob, why are you using synchronous waveforms for spectrums? I may be missing something, but it seems to me you're just asking for problems as you stated. Why not use asynchronous for spectrums, that's what they're there for.

Actually Bill, I spent 9 great years at Bently Nevada and have always had great respect for the company, their products and employees. I also have no affiliation at all with any competing product or company producing it. I do not sell any competing products in the area of transient data analysis. With hundreds of customers world-wide I do hear users comments on a wide variety of instrumentation in various industries - not just refining. Like the old saying about opinions, everyone has one.

quote:

Originally posted by Waylon M:
If it's any thing like System 1 good luck.
We're looking at replacing our 208's at this moment. Still wondering if we should use the 408's or to buy something different. Vendors are welcome to contact me.
Sorry I wasn't much help.

Waylon,
Are you still interested in selling off your 208's.
I am looking for 01 208 DAIU.

I have found that people with less 208 experience are able to pick up the 408 ADRE Sxp software the quickest and easiest. I think the reason for this is the extensive capabilities of the 408 and software, the number of options is overwhelming compared to the 208.

We've had problems with our 408, these include issues with the software and hardware. One typical problem was random card malfunction. During consecutive runs a card would display realtime data collection when really the data was not there. (trust me, I know about the current values, n samples, data range, etc. for post processing) the data was gone. Bently has since solved the problem for us and we continue to use the 408 regularly, however with a little less confindence.

Another thing to consider is the Bently Tech support (or lack there of). I don't just bash people out of spite, but I swear these people are worthless. In fact its astonishing how very little they know about their own equipment. I would consider this before purchasing a 60 grand piece of equipment.

That said I do love my 408.

I am contemplating purchasing a 408 or similar system. Has anyone looked at the ability to share data with various transient systems? I know that if I have data that I need help with diagnosing Bently has an MDS staff that I can share the data with and hopefully resolve a problem. Is this true of the other products on the market?

The Siemens Turbine guys turned us on to a product that they use. It is much simplier than the ADRE and so far has been very good.

No web site for them and they are a small company. It is a place called Vector Solutions in Canada. I have two 208's and I also have System 1. I have looked at the 408 but the price tag is pretty steep. This Vector Solutions box has worked very well and we have used it for many turbine startups. I have had both the 208's and this hooked up at the same time and they both match. This box makes it much easier to look at the data while it is being collected. Email me if you want an address or contact name. Note: I have no afiliation with this company what so ever.

It might be worth looking at vibDAQ.com

I have no connection with this company - just looking to augment our current data aquisition tools.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has used this kit - preferably an enduser rahter than a vendor/competitor

The 408 uses a software that is not unlike System 1. The system has a lot of power and with that it is significantly more complex than a 208. It is a powerful system and I believe that I will have to have a an iteration in computer speed and memory before I really enjoy using it.

The one major complaint that I have is hardware reliability. This must be the influence of the new quality driven ownership. I don't know where they are outsourcing the electronics, but the results are less than satifactory. I am reminded somewhat of the old Racal reel to reel tape recorder. I have three of these things and they are frequently being sent in for repair. I pray they get these things worked out before the service agreement ends.

That being said, the ability to use them remotely over the network is powerful. The channel density, sample count and resolution are awesome.