To all CSI users: help!

I'm setting up a new PdM program that has been in existance for years but finally it has reached day one. It is on the plants computer and since CSI is already in use, it is the tool to continue with (equipment already here; CSI 2120 and RBM wear).

I can not find one usable data set that has been created or in CSI's bank with realistic parameters for amplitude or frequency; I'll create my own - really don't see a big problem here - but also not 100% sure.

The existing program's data looks "funny" - acceleration spectra looks like velocity with g values??? Comparsion to a RTA also gives this analogy and conclusion, plus data are not in agreement from 2120 to RTA. Has anyone run this experiment on their own? Is this a function of CSI and their data processing?

Could it be that the original setup was for integration and once the accelerometer signal is digitized to velocity then data manipulation does not reporduce according to Hoyle?

Also on the data the overall level is in Volts and maybe RMS and either digital or analog over 40 kHz. Has anyone found this useful or realistic? Or, sensible for that matter?

It appears that throwing the entire database away and starting all over again is the only real solution; could anyone advise regarding this practice?

It also appears that CSI and Websters dictionary is not in agreement and nomenclature is set to mean whatever within CSI's realm of invention. That's neither here nor there but I find it strange to re-invent terminology.

Any comments or opinions are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Hi Sam,

I have been using CSI "stuff" for years, in fact was a Beta tester for the original RBMware version 4.00b. If you want, extract a few of the machines in question into a small database and email the databae and I'll be glad to see what, if I can, you are talking about.

Thanks Ralph,

Here's mine; lost yours:

sampickens@pdm-engineering.com

Sam, I am not an RBMware expert -- I use it at one site, but have been using Mastertrend for about 15 years now. Sounds like maybe whoever started this program didn't know how to set up the collection parameters. Some of the data might be salvageable (overall values?) and if the database is basically correct (machines, points) then you could delete the bad data and fix the collection paramaters. If it's as bad as you say it is, it's going to be a lot of work if there a lot of machines involved. Good luck.

Yeah! I'm building all my own data sets. Anybody have an easy way to copy new sets to old data points?

Overall is useless; reads out in Volts digital over 40 kHz with first 1000 Hz filtered out as I recall. And the digital volts is RMS with a 100 mV/g transducer and the transducer set is RMS. I do not have machines where anything is of value over 5kHz or maybe 1-2 at most; certaily not to 40 kHz.

Comparing tit for tat and with CSI ~2X cost of anything else - makes me wonder! But anything is useable I guess.

Sam,
Sounds like someone was all over the database, globals, and probably the analyzer changing units, values, and no telling what else and has everything royally screwed up. Any computer can be messed up by someone that doesn't have a clue and starts changing defaults.
If I were you I would build some AP sets the way I want them to be, name them something that makes sense. (eg. I have one that says 1800 rpm motor that I use on most 1800 rpm motors). Go to database setup, Tree structure, click on a machine, click edit, click modify points, click modify point parameters and then you can assign AP or alarm sets to every point on the machine.

quote:

Anybody have an easy way to copy new sets to old data points?

You can go to database utility, modify measurement points and change AP or Alarm Sets or Fault sets, unit type codes, ETC. assigned to points, all at one time (say for example, 10 points from AP set #1 to AP set # 21).

Jim, Rusty, Ralph ++++

Thanks, That was my approach: got new sets and created: MtrAF1800, PmpAF1800 & 3600 RPM and Slv. Doing AF = Antifriction Bearings; Slv = Sleeve or plain bearings. And doing G/B's, Gen's, etc similar with realistic OA (not volts RMS digital over 40 kHz by a fort night's delivery @15 stone).

Was discussing CSI today with some fellow analysts (who, unlike me, have used several other instruments) and we all agreed that having the 2120 for field data collection makes it worth putting up with the software. One tough box, and taking "extra" data in the field is fast. Won't do some of the stuff the other boxes do, but if you know what you're doing (i.e., experience) you can usually get what you need.

But I don't think anyone has made the "perfect" analyzer yet. Any other opinions?

Sam,

I have been using RBMWare since version 4.0 (unlike Ralph, I was not a beta tester, but a alpha guinea pig who paid for the product and helped debug it) and am now a couple of months into a project using Entek datapak and Oddessy. If you had asked me about 6 weeks ago, I had about the same opinion about Entek as you have about CSI. After a few weeks of using it, I realize that there are some things that Entek does better and some things that CSI does better.

In genereal, what has been said here over and over holds true-CSI has a better data collector and Entek has better software.

From what you describe, you would be better starting over from scratch no matter who made the software or hardware.

One thing I could suggest is that rather than giving your AP sets names like Pump, bearing, etc. you name them with the fmax, lor,bandwidth and filter settings. That way you can more easily apply them to other types of equipment within the database. And remember that a change to an ap set chnages all equipment using that set.

Let me know if I can help.

Good Luck,

Thanks Danny for the help and good advise. I have Entek and my own plus the ME-42's new stuff. I view a data collector as a dat recorder and not an analyzer for hi-powered diagnostics. I want PdM to be PdM and not vibration analyses - flag the problem and gather additional data if necessary.

It there an easy way to copy the new sets over the old?

And it seems presently the data are brought in as Velocity and differenciation isn't true back to acceleration. I've been using acceleration since 1979 and working in acceleration since 1980 as velocity isn't the main parameter of interest for me and my PdM technique. A picture is worth a thousand words!

Sam,
Its painstaking, but if you know which equipment uses what AP set, all you have to do is edit the AP set and as Danny says every piece of equipment that uses that set will see the change. The only downfall is if the machines themselves are different .I have been working on the same thing for quite some time now.

Hello Mr. Pickens

RBMware has a utility called "Database Utility" found under the Setup/Communications tab.

It will allow you to make changes to many points at the same time. In a nut shell, you set a filter to identifiy which points you want to change, you select the point feature that you want to change, and you set what you want that feature to be changed too. You also can pick if you want just a machine or a whole area or the entire database.

It's a little tricky to figure out, and the help file is not much help so I would caution you to work with a back up file first so you can see what it does. Once you get the hang of it, it's not hard to use.

If you want a quick summary of all the AP and AL sets, open Database Setup (DBase), go to AP (or AL) set info, and under Tools, select Summary Information. Select the level of detail and you get a report of everything in there. A lot quicker than opening each one, or screen prints, etc.

Also in DBase>Tree Structure, you can see which points have what AP/AL sets assigned by highlighting the database name or area or equipment, go to Tools>MPnt Set Assignments and check out the options.

If I'm changing AP sets, I'll use the "Display only matching set IDs" option, type in the set I'm monkeying with and see which pieces of equipment will be affected.

And then as others have mentioned, Database Utility (DButly) is a powerful tool. Use it wisely. There's no going back. Once you drop the hammer, that's it. Practice first on a piece of equipment or two before making changes to a whole area or database. Really, there's no undo function. (Does it sound like I've learned this the hard way?)

quote:

I view a data collector as a dat recorder and not an analyzer for hi-powered diagnostics

I love the 2120 & 2130. If there's a problem, I can usually see enough in the field to know how I'm going to write it up. I wish there was a way to enter notes from the data collector straight into RBMview or something. My reporting time would be cut in half. (Actually, the periodic vibration notes table wasn't added to the ODBC driver. Anybody who uses ODBC, call CSI and ask them to add it. So far, I'm the only one.)

quote:

And it seems presently the data are brought in as Velocity . . .

This is taken care of at the point level. Change the Units Type Code to 'Acc <-- Acc'. This can be done in DButly, too.

Well, that's probably more than I know about that.

Thanks for input, advise and help. This is the most difficult system I've ever been exposed to. There are error messages all the time, plus access denied and now one database popped up and asks for a password - I have no idea as I'm the adminstrator and it won't take mine. CSI doesn't provide 24/7 help on their stuff, so, it's wait until Monday and see if they will call me back. Haven't been happy so far. It seems the guy that 'helped set this stuff up (before me)' was a former CSI rep and he knew squat nothing or how to operate or setup the database. This thing is a can of worms.

I think that this board is the only means of getting results and of course, 'just do it on your own' as the AP sets or data sets are so far out in left field they are unuseable. It appears that CSI is ~2x$; you'd expect more.

I certainly appreciate the help to the Nth degree.

Sam, you just get the fun work do ya?
If the database is locked, either you are on a network that dropped with the database open across the net or one of the remaining bugs from 1986 crashed the soft and left the database locked open. Before this was so common that there was a button on the first page that said like "clear database lockup" in a nicer way. Now you either delete the files whatever they were called that contained the flags that makes the locking it, used to have the same name as the database but not .dat extension but something else and they are system and hidden so you need old faithful Norton Commander to see them and kill them, Billy will not let ya. They will pop up like Fenix bird next time the soft starts up but in unlocked state. There is a function to do this somewhere in a menu but my mind have rejected to keep that info, maybe someone else knows it as it was used very often.
Be careful not to kill the databasefiles if you fiddle around, or maybe that is the best solution:-) I think the databases can have their own password different from system and all else so if you don´t have it and don´t know the birthdate of the guy before you´s mother you are stuck on that database I think. Have you looked under the keyboard? I could have helped you on this wild goose chase when I was passing Charlotte the weekend a couple of weeks ago, I kind of like them chases. Good luck and only use soft rubber mallets on the PC. Olov

Sam,

Like Oli alluded to, the database password can be different than your login password. If the database has a password, login as the administrator (sounds like you're doing that) and open RBM Network Administration. In the 'Databases' section, select, then right-click the database you're having a problem with. Select 'Change DB Password' and either change the password or clear it.

Post some of the details of the other error messages and we might be able to help with them. Access denied sounds like you might be trying to open programs you (client) didn't buy--there's silver, gold and platinum levels. Which programs are you having problems with?

Oh, and for $100 or so, you can call CSI for 'extended support.' All you need is a credit card. Leave a message and the on-call person will call you back. If they can't help, you don't pay.

Thanks to all for the big help.