Darth,

The Force is working, just not the Dark Side.

Danny

Like Paranoid Danny, I was also brought up with CSI. I did look into the commtest VB3000 and the Vibexpert. For the price, you realy couldn't beat the Commtest, and the Vibexpert is also a realy nice unit. I didn't care for the software on either one of these and it may have been because it was different from what I'm use to.
I bit the bullet, spent the money, and wouldn't trade my 2130 or RBMware for anything else. I find it easy for setup, simple to analyze, and so far have had no problems whatsoever.
There was a recent thread posted called "goodbye CSI, hello what's your name" that also contained some good opinions you may want to look at Chuck.
For anyone that doesn't know, CSI has an upgrade for RBMsuite coming out this summer. From what I've been told, this is suposed to be the best yet.
And Danny, You should be paranoid. I'm expanding your way and going to steal all your customers! Let me know how much you charge so I can be lowest bidder.
(just kidding)

Pete

Pete,

You don't scare me! Besides, I need some competition for the lowest of the low.

As far as the coming edition of RBMWare that is "supposed to be the best yet" they all are "supposed to be" just like all movies are "supposed to be" good.

Paranoid Danny

Dan,
The problem that I have with RBM is that is not and never will be a true 32 bit windows environment. Yes, you are correct that one of the things it can't do is change mistakes easily. The argument that that's a good thing so people don't fake info doesn't hold water because you can limit access at various user levels.
My biggest complaint with RBM is that the menus are endless and the views are not hyperlinked. By that I mean.......How would like to view your lastest data from a collection, and on the screen at the same time is the overall trend, a spectrum waterfall of all historical data, the lastest spectrum, time waveform (this time and the one previous), and a demod spectrum. Move the cursor in one view and they ALL update!
I can't imagine that you've had the time to spend in Odyssey and not come away in love with it. See the example attached for the screen that I work with. Also, it has all the alarms, etc., so I only print out what has alarmed.
Of course, you can dummy down the display to whatever you want. What is key is that you can customize the view for WHATEVER you want to look at, including a pic of the equipment.
Oh, by the way, another gotcha in RBM ware....change your band alarms and you can't look at your historical data with the new alarms. This is major and it is all due to a poorly designed database structure.

Doc2.doc (188 Kb, 44 downloads) Odyssey Screen

Ron,

I definitely like the linking of the trend graphs and spectrum cursor, etc. in Odyssey. I have many variable speed gearboxes that I cover with Odyssey and that presents a real problem for it. It may be something I'm doing wrong, but when I have spectrum, waterfall and trend displayed and change the units from cpm or hz to orders in either the spectrum or waterfall, it changes the other also, but incorrectly. It seems like it takes the value in orders from the other as if it were in cpm and then shows that graph with a different value. I hope that made sense, but I doubt it. It makes it so that I can't display both graphs in orders and makes the trend useless.

I also have many, many communications problems with Odyssey. Very often when attempting to load through the card slot on my laptop, it goes through the entire process in a normal fashion and says it loaded the route, but when I put the card back into the Datapack, nothing is there. It almost always works when dumping data, but frequenctly fails when loading. Then it is back to the cable and 25-30 minutes to load.

There are plenty of things that RBMWare can do that Odyssey cannot. Can you display multiple spectra from multiple points at the same time? Can you display the values of all established analysis parameters for up to 144 measurement points at once? Will Odyssey automatically create fault frequency lines on the spectrum and waveform for as many faults as you want to enter?

I cover many complex drive trains. One has 4 motors and 4 triple reduction gearboxes, all in one housing. It has 32 bearings, 24 gears and 16 shafts all at different speeds. Once I have set it up, all I have to do is enter the motor speed for each motor and the software does all the rest. I can't imagine trying to track 150 to 200 different fault frequencies (some of them only a few cpm apart) in Odyssey.

I've had plenty of time to work with Odyssey and while I'm sure there are plenty of things you could teach me about it, I'll bet that there are even more that I could teach you about RBMWare. Let me know if you want to sell your CSI stuff.

ps I've heard the same thing about the difficulty of maniplating the data being a selling point. Those guys should be in politics with spin like that.

I have used and worked with from start CSI, SKF/Palomar, Adash, Nåiden, DLI, Odyssey, Commtest, maybe some more and I agree to the items Ron discuss on the CSI status of things, currently I use my faithful 2120 for balancing and special cases still MTW if any as there is no news. SKF newer versions just makes me confused as they moved around the stuff with same result, still lacking things that the DOS version had, (I am getting old I guess) Commtest for the everyday and my own for quickies. Still haven´t seen the optimal to get by with 1 system for all cases. Olov

Thanks for that Danny...I knew you were one of the good guys at heart!

Oh, and your giving your age away talking about IRD 7090....I was using that product years ago as well...so see, we do have something in common.

From what I have found out as of today talking to Rockwell Applications Engineers, the newest Emonitor product version is gonna be 3.3

They have changed stuff enough to really confuse me though...Emonitor Factory sounds like the old Odyssey Deluxe (what I'm using now).

One really cool thing I learned today is that I can save @ $16,000.00 by just buying the E-Safe silver warranty for my current software and get the automatic update (to vs. 3.3) for the cost of the warranty ($3,400.00)

I sure like that idea of getting an Enpac 2500 to use as a trial...as it stands, I have no idea how it will compare to my DP1500's.

Thanks to all for the great comments and for voting...I apologize if your system was not included...looked like there was only room in the poll for 5 answers....but it's good that you can just post your system in the thread.

You all have a great weekend....I'll spend mine trying to decide which direction I'm gonna go....looks like the overwhelming majority of respondants favor or use CSI.

Oh....and we're cool now....you can drop the "paranoid" line with my most humble apologies!

Chuck

Mr. Reliability,

I'm glad you found out about the e-safe will get you the upgrade. That's what I did. Saved buckuu amounts of dollars.
As far as the local distributer, you know Rockwell is set up like a multi level marketing company (think AMWAY). The problem is the products they are supposed to be marketing has not made it down to their level yet. I would suggest you call the help line (the number has changed but they will give you the new number and connect you if you call 800-ent-ekir)and tell them of your frustration and concerns.
Those of us who use the products have been going that route since they have managements ear every Tuesday, and it seems that is the only way to get through. However, I did put a complaint, question into Rockwells Knowledgebase system today at 9:00 and had a response at 11:15. That was pretty cool. SInce I worked for IRD, EntekIRD, and then Rockwell, I know how frustrating it is to find someone who gives a hoot. Try the support line, there are still three IRD folks there that do care (probably more I just don't know them )

And you're right, if you had the 2130 and Odyssey, you'd have the best of both worlds, but it ain't gonna happen

Danny,

I set up all of my points where I just input the RPM into the first point RPM location (ususally outboard motor) and everything, including all the other RPM values at all the other points, changes and the software does all the calculations. The gearboxes, especially the epicyclic, work very well. You need some training, shall I send my rate sheet
With your orders, etc. you're having trouble with, the version your using (2.3) has a known problem with orders tracking display, and I believe there is a hot fix that will take care of it, or it may have been taken care of in 3.0, I'll check.

By the way, when are you going to buy me dinner again? Laying it off on Tote being down is getting thin now I could probably cut you a better rate if dinner was supplied

You all take care. Have a good weekend.

Dave

I, like most, am disgusted with Rockwell. Entek has went donwhill sharply since Rockwell took it over. They just keep charging more and give less. Trying to deal with Allen-Bradley is like dealing with a completely new company and they don't know anything about what you are talking about when you talk about the vibration field. They have gotten rid of most of the Entek sales staff and support staff.

I agree with Ron, that the ability in Odyssey to see all the data from one position on a single screen is a very valuable tool. It and the ability to take true-peak acceleration readings are the only things that is keeping me from changing companies. If the new up and coming companies are listening, put true-peak readings in the hardware and software and an "auto view" screen in the software and you can probably increase your market share considerably.

By the way, I started with the IRD 7010 Software -- overall values manually entered.

Regards,
John J

This message has been edited. Last edited by: John J,

Hello,

Our company bought SKFs program. We have Aptitude view to build our hierarchy and Machine Analyst for our analysis program. Sounds like the Rockwell software is similar to SKF products. In Machine Analyst you do your speed tags and speed ratios and just take a speed point off the drive component and it knows the speeds through any reductions. I really like the software and as of now our support is a 9 out of 10 from our SKF Reps. I have no pre concieved notion of any other package. We are getting alot of wins at our plant so something is working. We have a couple of CSI 2110 Analyzers collecting dust from our plants previous try at CBM.

Regards, Dave

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ddane,

I never really knew why I used a nickname. I think back when I first started it was so the boss man at my previous job would not know how much time I spent on here. Now I am out in the real world where I have to work for a living, so I don't have the office time that I had before.
I once watched a wrestling match between Rufus R. "Freightrain" Jones and some masked guy named The Avenger I think. It was a hair versus mask match. Rufus R. won and the masked guy was unmasked right then. There was a huge wrestling fan in front of me that turned around and said, "I have been to 3 different cities the last 3 nights and watched Rufus R. beat the Avenger each night and there was a different man under the mask each time.
So, if you go to 3 different cities on 3 consecutive nights to watch the same wrestling match-------------yoooooooooouuuuuuuuuuu might be a Redneck. And I are one.
Where am I going with this? Don't know, I just spent 10 hours removing a timing belt from a 1990 Toyota pick up and I ran into every problem that you can think of and my brain is fried.
Oh, Vibeguy2004 is and always will be David Harmon from Lexington South Carolina "Unmasked".
I used CSI for 9 years before switching to Commtest because that is what my present boss wanted me to do. I really like the software and the cost is a good factor. I kind of miss Peakvue but have found that Demod works pretty well. I miss Negative Linear Averaging also.

Dave,

Call me when you are in town next and we'll do something.

Danny

Mr. Reliability,
I have been fortunate to use both odyssey as well as RBM ware. Unfortunately now I am using RBM ware and do not have the ability to change. I don't know if it was you but someone said it earlier that if you could blend the 2130 and the odyssey software it would be heaven. That's not the first time I have hears that and I agree but I doubt that will ever happen. I would go back to odyssey in a heartbeat and the DP1500 if I could. In my opinion the pros out way the cons by far. RBM has its good areas like spectral comparison for different points of different machines, but I can live without that to get the ease of making collection spec changes or addition to a single point or being able to simply delete data that was incorrectly collected in Odyssey.
Using RBM feels like using a DOS software compared to Odyssey.

Just my opinion

Jason

Jason,

You make a good point....I got my hands on a the RBM ware and kinda had the same feeling...like stepping back in time.

Looking at the Poll today ,,,looks like the CSI products are hands down the most popular being used today...must be something to it.

I have a loaner EnPac 2500 coming this week to use and next week I have the Commtest rep coming with his demo's...I'll be reporting back what I find on each of these offerings.

It would be interesting to find out which of those who voted don't have a choice in what they are using like myselt. I am using CSI because that is what was decided before I started.

In the vibration institute chapter I belong to there are many more Entek users than CSI. Maybe the history of the companies will tell the story as to why some went with one or the other. Maybe price, age of company, I'm not sure.

Is anyone using RTA's and software?

Another real advantage of RBMWare over Odyssey is the way the data collector and software handles what Odyssey calls "Off Route Data"

With CSI stuff, when you need to collect some additional data on a measurement point you press Analyze (this may have changed on the 2130), tell it what to collect, then take the reading. After taking the reading it asks you if you want to store the data and if you answer yes, it will be stored seqauentially with the rest of the readings for whatever point is active at the time. With Odyssey, I'm not sure what really happens, but I have been told to edit the measurement point description before collecting the data. It is then stored as an additional measurement point making it impossible to compare to any other dat related to the point. If you don't alter the identification, it is stored somewhere else entirely. (Sorry, but I don't have my Odyssey set-up available right now).

Maybe this has been fixed in more recent versions of Odyssey or I just don't know how to use it right. I have posed this question here before and was given the advice about altering the ID.

I guess the Datapack is obsolete now so this may no longer apply, but I like the recessed buttons better than the buttons on the 2120. It is ironic that the software that allows for easy correction of mistaken data comes with a data collector that makes it unlikely that you will collect anything by accident while the software that goes out of its way to make it hard to manipulate the data comes with a data collector that is easy to collect data by accident with. However, the 2120 makes it easy to delete a reading before you dump the data. The extra store button is also very nice for us ambidextrous individuals.

Danny,
Do you run your RBMWare by itself or on a network? I have been using CSI for about 10 years because this is what the mill has had and what I broke in on. My only problem with CSI and RBMware is we run it on a network and every time there is an upgrade, our IT guys end up pulling their hair out. Usually takes about a month to upgrade with lots of calls back to tech support. I think we're about 2 upgrades behind now and we get them with our maintenance agreement. Every time i bring up putting the upgrades in and catching up...well all the IT guys suddenly have lots of other more pressing business.

Jim,

Thankfully, I have two single user copies of RBMWare, because I have heard the same story about the network version from several sources.

We run a network version of RBMware (across three different sites, a long way apart), but haven't had any problems with the couple of upgrades that we have done. We are, however, a couple of upgrades behind, but that is due to the IT policies of the company that we work for, not due to issues with the upgrades themselves.

quote:

Oh, by the way, another gotcha in RBM ware....change your band alarms and you can't look at your historical data with the new alarms. This is major and it is all due to a poorly designed database structure.

If by band alarms you mean the trend parameters, you can get RBMware to recalculate them, but I think you have to have Autostat ($$) and a fair bit of patience...