I have a customer that wants to put vibration monitoring on a bunch of equipment. They want 4-20ma outputs to run into their PLC system (sorry, that's as technical as I can get on the electrical side -- I'm an M.E.) We think we will want 5 or 6 points on each machine. They'd like to have temperatures as well from each bearing. They will use Wonderware to build displays for overall vibration levels, trending, and triggering alarms. They don't want to do any "analysis"... just monitor overall vibration so they can shut down a machine before it goes belly-up.

The simplest method seems to be to use loop-powered sensors with a 4-20 output. This would give them what they want, but nothing more.

The next step seems to be to use a single 4-20 transmitter per channel that has the advantage of multiple outputs (4-20, raw acceleration, BNC), high and low-pass filters. The disadvantage is space requirements and having to wire each transmitter individually (not a huge problem in my mind, but seems to be to them).

Beyond that, we get into "systems" which I am not at all familiar with. We are looking at about 16 machines, for starters, with the potential for many more. They want to keep it simple, but are willing to accomadate my desire for outputs that I can use for diagnostics and analysis. What they'd really love is local "hardware" with wireless connection to their PLC system. Hardwiring the sensors locally is OK, and they can get 'power' anywhere it's needed, and it whatever flavor.

I am interested in any and all proposals and ideas, since this really is beyond my experience. They would even be willing (I think) to pay a consulting fee to someone to put the specs together for this system (if you don't want to do it 'just for fun' ). I will be working closely with the implementation of this system, but I don't feel the need to "own" the system.... it's a big pie.

Again, any and all proposals are welcome. But remember, no bells and whistles... keep it clean, lean, and simple. Thanks.

There are a number of systems; wireless could be a consideration also since the price has dropped. I'd do a cost analysis on labor intensive systems vs wireless and so on ... have people calling - bye for now. But do they have a SAP CMMS or??????????????

Been doing this recent 4 decades, what a pity you are on the other side of the pond. I guess US companies do not want to buy from abroad if availbale locally. But for just technical comparison you could look at www.vmiab.com

http://www.imi-sensors.com/series.asp?series=689B11

Rusty, this is the simplest one I know of and it meets all of your needs. Vibration, Temperature, 4-20ma output and a BNC to connect your data collector.

I'm not a vendor. I used these and they work great.

One of the things we'd like to avoid is having to wire each transmitter for power... don't they make an enclosure/transmitter combo that uses a buss power scheme where you just plug the transmitter in and it's powered? (sort of like breakers in a breaker panel)

http://www.wilcoxon.com/vi_index.cfm/PD_ID=316

This is the Wilcoxon version. They mount on a buss bar. I don't know whether they are interconnected for power. You might want to look at the XM modules from Rockwell. They're about $2200CDN each for 2 channels but they are very flexible and easy to work with.

Rusty
Let’s take a basic transmitter system that uses low cost ICP accelerometer with integral temperature sensor that connects to a transmitter module that has dual 4-20 ma output for overall velocity and temperature. The transmitter would also provide buffered accelerometer signal output on a BNC connector. An estimated price would be about $700.00 per sensor channel that includes a short run of sensor cable with connector and a sensor mounting disk, but it excludes NEMA enclosure, power supply, and installation costs. The total cost is very sensitive to the cost per channel and number of channels. So 6 channels per machine total is $4200.00, and the total for 16-machines is $67,200.00. Now you have to add installation cost of all the cables, PLC analog inputs, and programming. You might want to rethink the number of sensors per machine and type of monitoring system or buy lottery ticket to afford such a system.

Walt

Cost is really not the issue... simplicity of installation is. When your net profit (not mine, of course) is $800K per day, cost is not a problem. Running 2 lines, that's $17k per hour when a line is down (that's true net when you are selling everything you can make).

They don't want it cheap, just simple and neat. I really don't understand why none of the mainstream vibe folks don't make an expandable system where you could add up to 16 channels by just plugging in a module. Heck, I'd like to see a single terminal strip at the bottom so you didn't have to run any wires to the module. Am I the only one who thinks that's logical?

One thing I've noticed is the loop-powered sensors seem to have a temperature limit of about 185 F. I assume that is because of the onboard electronics. Anyone know of a higher temperature unit available?

If higher temperature is a must, consider the CMCP1100HT series accelerometers with integral cable interfaced to CMCP530 transmitters. Cost is approx. $550.00 per channel for both. Can interface to cost effective analog to digital converter and RF Radio for wireless if desired. Happy to discuss offline if you like.

Sensor:
http://www.stiweb.com/proddata/cmcp1100HT.htm
Transmitter:
http://www.stiweb.com/proddata/cmcp500_vibration_transmitters.htm
A/D:
http://www.stiweb.com/proddata/cmcpRM-ADC.htm
Radios:
http://www.stiweb.com/proddata/cmcpOS2400_Radios.htm
Can provide Wonderware HMI for operators as well.

Rusty,

Didn't our old friend Don Rainey go to work for someone that sells wireless systems? I think it was Azima (or something like that).

That stuff Dave G. posted looks pretty cool.

Take Care,

Yes, Don is a prime mover with Azima and they make world-class remote wireless systems that work well. But part of their business model is the "remote monitoring service"... the data resides on their servers and is monitored and analyzed remotely (though the end user has the same access), so they have to have access to the user's network.

It's a very sophisticated, very powerful system, but in this case, my customer wants something much simpler.

Rusty,

I assume you know that the referenced stiweb system does not include temperature measurements that you requested.
Are you going to monitor two-component machines (motor-pump or motor-fan) with 6 velocity transmitters or machines that are more complex? Isn't this number of sensors for just overall levels overkill? I am simply questioning whether the methology is consistent. Can anyone else comment on the use of transmitters-PLC for large scale monitoring?

Walt

Vendor,

If you want it all, look at this:
http://www.vtab.se/index.php?page=5&lang=en
AT19C have vibration, bearing and temp. Partial options possible. I agree Walt, normally I try to get minimum 1 transducer per bearing specially if temp is required but it often ends up with one per machine or one per machine part. Still one is better than none, it will tell before the machine walks out the door. We have delivered a substantial number of 4-20mA transducers 0-10 mm/s from the LPC series for tunnel ventilation fans and after installation I have heard nothing, that in my world indicates that they work. It´s the cheapest machine insurance policy you can get. Olov

Rusty,
Not sure if it is what your customer looking for, but you might look at:
http://www.riotechinst.com/products.htm
We're in process of testing their two units, I can tell you in a couple weeks how it worked.
Dragan

Walt, the number of sensors per machine will vary. Too many will just produce too much information for them to easily digest. For the driven units we will probably use one per bearing. We will have probably one sensor on some of the motors, some won't have any. Cost per channel is not a huge factor. Getting cable from the transmitters to the PLC will probably cost more. Temperature they don't necessarily need, but he just wants to have it available, maybe as a "backup"... I don't know.

Take a look at the Metrix 5554 OptoMet Machine protection System and ST6917 loop-powered, 4-20 mA velocity-output accel. The service temp (120 C/248 F)can be solved by using metal"standoffs" (steel rods) for the accel attachment to bearing caps. (Note; I do not work for Metrix.)

tm

Rusty, has this issue been resolved?

They went with the XM modules from Rockwell... some salesman got to them on this. Don't have any installed yet, but I will probably be installing the sensors in a few weeks during the next shutdown and we will get them up and running. I did help with initial setup of the XM they have, and it was fairly robust as to what you could alarm off of (lets you set up "band" alarms, etc). We shall see.

Hey Oxidized Steel,

You couldn't have done better

Dave

Rusty,

Don't count out our equipment because the customer wants something simple. All it takes is a little cordination with the IT departments. Another option is to send the data over celluar networks (verizon, cingular) this avoids network issues. Give Rainey a call.

I installed a "roamer" unit last Thursday at a paper mill. It took less than an hour. We are already cleared on the network. If not, I would have used a cell mentioned above. The sophistication is on the processing/remote side. Installs are very easy.

We met in the wonderful world of Blytheville probably two years ago.

Jacob