Hi.

I am an Engineer working in a powerplant in India. Its a small power plant but we are looking to buy a good thermal imager.

The company (like any other) is very cost conscious and we are looking at a camera that offers high value for our money.

What would you say are the best cameras out there? The companies that most people are talking about include Raytek, Mikron Infrared and FLIR. We dont require images of very high resolution. What are your suggestions wrt to products like Infracam, Ti30 and M7800

flint236

Ive been in a similar posistion to yourself over the past few months looking for a camera thats of good value but still gives you what you need. I had a demo on FLIR's infraCAM and found that although the cost was excellent the cameras resolution was just not what i expected and i there for decided to not go with the infraCAM. Also there was FLUKE's Ti20 similar spec and price but i did not even bother to take a look at the camera. I have decided to bring in a local company who do thermography, they have qualified level III engineers and are using a top end piece of kit from FLIR. Its just what suits you best but im sure others on this forum who are more experienced will give you some better help.

Regards

Tag

Hey Tag,

thanks for the quick reply. We were thinking of something along the same lines but thermography hasnt yet hit the mainstream in India big time. So we are still working on. Till then, is there anybody else out there who could help me out?

Also, I believe the Ti30 camera is more expensive than the infracam. Do you think it offers more value for money?

thanks

Flint

This message has been edited. Last edited by: flint236,

Hi Flint
email me at rai@motorcheckcanada.com
I might have somthing in terms of IR service in India
Regards
Rai

Flint,

I've used a number of thermal cameras. Everything from $2500.00 US to $65,000.00 US. I've also scanned everything from a blower duct (looking for hot spots after a fire) to high voltage sub-stations and power transmission lines. In my opinion, unless you're doing some extremely detailed analytical projects, the high dollar cameras with all the bells and whistles aren't necessary. Also, having a thermal camera that can also take a regular digital image for visual identification purposes is nice. However, the digital image quality is not always very good. Especially when you look at how much the price of the thermal camera goes up in order to add that feature. At the moment, I'm sold on the Electrophysics EZTherm. www.electrophysics.com
It's relatively inexpensive, versatile, easy to use and does everything most normal thermographers need it to do. Don't get the digital camera attachment for it. You'll be very disappointed. What I do, is use a regular digital camera that fits in my pocket. It has an SD memory card which I take out and put in the PC on the thermal camera. That allows me to add the digital pics to the thermal report. No, I'm not a vendor for EZTherm! I like Flir, Micron and other cameras too. They all have good and bad points. For now, I'm sticking with EZTherm until someone changes my mind.
Hope this helps!

Don

Flint,

I just thought of something else. Are you going to be getting any training to go along with your new thermal program? If so, make sure you go to a training facility that is NOT vendor specific. These classes usually ask you to bring your camera to the class if you have one. Don't worry if you don't have one yet. This will allow you to see a number of different cameras that others are using and to ask questions.

Don

Flint,
We are using FLIR P-60(Now updated to P-65)and we found it really useful. But itz expensive.. But if you can give enough justification for buying that,it would be better. In a powerplant it will be a very important tool. Even in our steel plant we could save millions in the 1st year itself which already made up the price.
And about the digital image, we are not getting good resolution like what Don mentioned. We are using a good resolution digital camera for that..

Flint -
Something you have not mentioned, and no one has questioned: what do you hope to inspect? I assume that your powerplant is combustion driven, not hydro for example. If so, you may want to consider the potential for fireside examinations. Your fuel will influence both the ability and desirability of this. Published work has shown some real utility for examining the fireside of pulverized coal units for slag build up, for example. The work was done with a short wave camera. Short wave cameras are less avaialable than they used to be, but are still an option. In addition, some of the long wave units now claim filtering capabilities for use in combustion situations. You are not going to get these at the low end price point of the market, but the added utility may make it worthwhile.
Jack

For an overall picture: look at the range of stuff at www.conditech.com

It may not be what you're looking for at all but then again it may be of some benefit. I think the camera is ~$14500USD

sorry I was unable to login over the weekend. Thanks for the help.

We are quite set on an imager from one of these three companies- Flir, Raytek and Mikron. Well, its my manager who is quite set on one of these three. He is one for a big brand name and he has never heard of Electrophysics (even though I tried to convince him otherwise).It is upto me to get a good deal.

I can see why he wants to go for these companies, they are well established and are known for delivery and consistency. FLIR especially.

Will log in later and discuss what exactly we are looking for. Thanks for the help!

Link to a variety of cameras - will be adding Mikron later this week:
http://www.maintenanceproductsdirect.com/category_s/93.htm

flint236

During the setup of our IR program we also spent a lot of time on camera selection. During this critical time in your program you'll also need to deterimine what analysis software is the best for your situation. Examine the goals of your program. Do you want to perform fault detection or true predictive maintenance? For efficent predictive maintenance we have found that a structured equipment database that includes a criticality rating is very important. In my opinion a camera that is designed to capture images for a "known" piece of equipment and automaticlly upload to the database equipment location will produce the highest return on investment. This type of program will allow the thermographer to spend more time in the field collecting data and less time on image management.

Dear flint 326:

In order to realize the maximum benefit from any infrared camera purchase, there are several factors that must be considered. Failure to give appropriate consideration to these factors can result in the purchase of an imager that is not suitable for the intended task(s).

In general, there are 6 steps to selecting an infrared imager. In order of decreasing importance, these are:

Identify Applications
Determine Appropriate Spectral Response
Compare Objective Specifications
Determine Performance Specifications
Obtain Service & Warranty Info
Evaluate Imager for Subjective Characteristics
Equipment Cost

For more guidance on your equipment purchase, you may wish to visit irinfo.org where you can download the article, Selecting Specifying and Purchasing Infrared Imagers. The subject URL is: http://www.irinfo.org/Articles/article_9_2003_seffrin.html

Lastly, the greatest limiting factor in an infrared inspection is the equipment operator. Relying on data by untrained persons can have disastrous consequences. To this end, a trained and certified operator of infrared equipment is of paramount importance for accurate data collection and interpretation. For information on training and certification courses for thermographers, please visit: www.infraspection.com.
Hope this is helpful.

Jim Seffrin

How about portable AGEMA which I have used before? Also what electrical equipment will you cover in your thermographic program? And at what frequencies? Btw, we also use a fixed thermographic to monitor a reactor up to 1200C which connected to a PC in the control room.

My company is very new to Infrared. Ihave been trying to get us involved for some time now. I seem to never get past the price. My Manager is good at talking reliability to me but when it come's time to get started he stumbles on the price.

One option to consider, especially if justifying the cost of the IR camera and program is an upfront issue, is to use an outside service provider for your initial IR program. This will give you the chance to demonstrate what the camera AND the program can do for your plant. You should select an experienced provider and, preferably one with a fully capable camera. Let the provider's experience help you identify applications in your plant. They may come up with more than you are aware of and that will help justify, along with the results in the areas that you are already planning, the purchase and possibly the upgrade to a better camera. It will also help you get a jump start on procedures and applications to your facility.

Jack

flint,

I work at a nuclear power plant and we are sold on Flir. They have several models that range from a few thousand $$$ up to appx. $70k US. We use a P-595 and an E-4. The E-4 is not all that expensive and gives adaquate images when we are not overly concerned with the resolution. The E-4 is very simple to use and is available for our techs to use. The P-595 is the camera we (Predictive Maintenance)use for components that need sharp resolution and is not used by our techs.

Another item you will need to take into consideration s: What type of reports you will want to generate with the camera? Since we use Flir equipment we use their report makers, which make for a nice report format. You will need a quaility report for any presentations (Dog and Pony shows)for management. They like colors and numbers.

Flir's EX320, InfraCAM, EX300 all seem to be adaquate cameras for what you are describing. I don't think you can use interchangable lens for the InfraCAM.

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.
Pete
pte1@pge.com

I want to thank you for your response. I think that I will suggest that we have an experienced contractor come to our facility. I see what you are saying and will let you know the outcome.
Don

hey guys! thanks for all the responses. We got ourselves a FLIR's EX320. I think this was exactly what we needed. Just out of curiosity, how much does this cost back there in the States?

Thanks,

FLINT

Now you got your equipment, is your thermographer certified? And what equipment will be under thermography program?