Hi All,

I am a newbie to IR and am looking to get some training but cannot decide which training school to go to.

I decided to post here as I think this board is not affiliated with any school. I did not want to post this on the Snell Board or ITC Board.

My problem is trying to figure out which training school is more recognised or accepted by the local US industry and also global market.

I am also looking at non vendor specific training as from experience I have found this type of training to be mainly geared towards the vendor's brand of equipment.

So that leaves me with Snell Infrared and Infraspection Institute.

I have done extensive online reading on both of these schools web site and found what I think is a big difference when it comes to certification.

Snell does not certify as they follow the ASNT standard. This is left for the employer to certify the inspector. But Snell does offer ASNT based examinations such as the Specific, General and Practical exam that is required based on ASNT's standard.

Infraspection Institute has their own certification called the certified infrared thermographer certification. They say that they are the first and oldest IR training school. They offer certification exams after each of their courses. This certification never expires and there is nor recertification process. The exam is also open book. They also state that their program meets ISO and ASNT standards. This is where I see the problem...

doesent these certification standards require a closed book exam and also periodical recertification to validate the inspectors active qualifications?

So which is the most accepted training and certification program that Insurance companies, Industry and Govt prefer?

Which is the most reputable?

I just cannot decide.

I'm familiar with Infraspection who has produced its own thermography standard.

I learnt about Snell in this board.

Anyway, which ASNT and ISO standards refer to thermograpghy?

from my research the most used ASNT standard is SNT TC 1A. This is for employers to train and certify inspectors.

With ISO there are ISO9712 and ISO18436 which deals with NDT and Condition Monitoring.

Voltron,

Thank goodness you are not seeking a "vendor school" as many do. Both Snell and Infraspection offer non-biased training that is simply not possible in a camera vendor school. If the camera vendor is paying the instructor salary - who do you think the master is?

As for which is "better" - both schools are top notch.

I do have a problem with "lifetime" certification as those who read my previous posts know. I also have a problem with a "school provided" certification for the same reasons I do not endorse vendor schools. When money is involved - the potential for conflict of interest is simply too great. I am not saying that there has ever been a conflict of interest - I am simply stating that the potential is there.

The new ISO standards separate training bodies and certification bodies - and that will be a great thing for our industry.

So - take courses at either or both - but do not let the idea of certification influence your decision. Take the training for the value of the training and hope that our industry gets viable certification standards that will actually make a difference soon.

Over 50% of employers in this industry do not value the current certification schemes. The inmates have run the prison for far too long in our industry and the times will change soon.

Good luck with the training.

Terry O

I have never taken a course at either of those schools, but I have gotten very helpful information in person and on the internet from top-notch trainers from both schools. John Snell, Greg McIntosh, Bob Madding come to mind.

There was a comment above about vendor affiliation. I believe Infraspection is affiliated with Flir, but I've heard their training program covers all vendors' cameras. (Snell is not affiliated with any camera manufacturer.)

Let me try to "wade in" without muddying the waters!

First, Snell Infrared is, and has always been, equipment neutral. We are interested in having you know how to use the camera you have, understanding its limitations (all have them), and, if you don't have a camera, finding one(s) that will meet your needs.

Second, ASNT-compliant certification is employer based, meaning your company certifies you. We have supported this type of certification very strongly since 1988 and have seen it well used in small and large companies alike, including GM, Ford, Dupont and Conoco, among others.

ASNT-compliant certification is based on training, documented experience and testing. In addition, the company must set up a "written practice," a simple document that describes how someone is qualified and certified.

The certification exams we offer, as an option, comply fully with ASNT standards and are used by many to fulfill this requirement. You do NOT have to have attended our courses to take our exams.

Third, ISO-compliant certification, granted by a government or quasi-government group in each country, is not currently available in the US. I hope it will be at some point but in the meanwhile, we are encouraging our customers to establish ASNT-compliant systems. Europe and the UK are moving quickly toward ISO certification for thermographers in NDT and Machine diagnostics.

Fourth, when someone completes one of our courses, we issue a "certificate of completion" in their name. I believe most other training companies do the same. Many thermographers—and even more of their customers—then consider themselves to be "certified." While I do not share that opinion, I appreciate that the market does not recognize the difference between this "basic certification" and ASNT-or ISO-compliant certification. I am more interested in whether someone is QUALIFIED and believe that "basic certification" alone cannot ensure this.

If you have other questions I can answer about our courses or about our relationship to certification, please feel free to post them here or contact me directly. In the end I hope you get what you want and need to become a great thermographer.

Dear All:

As a point of clarification, Infraspection Institute is NOT affiliated with any manufacturer of infrared equipment.

Since Infraspection does not manufacture or sell infrared equipment, its courses are presented without marketing hype and are relevant to all brands of thermal imagers regardless of age. All of our instructors are highly experienced, practicing thermographers. Each brings years of unmatched, real-world experience to the classroom. Our courses are taught using a combination of dynamic multi-media presentations, hands-on demonstrations and one-on-one interaction with students. All courses integrate theory, practice, and case studies in a fun, relaxed atmosphere designed to maximize your learning experience.

Since 1980, Infraspection Institute has trained and certified nearly 10,000 thermographers worldwide. All Infraspection Institute Certified Infrared Thermographer® training courses are compliant with the requirements of SNT-TC-1A. Many companies that follow SNT-TC-1A recognize Infraspection Institute certification as a qualification for their personnel while others list it as a recognized part of their professional credentials.

For accurate information on Infraspection training and certification, please call or visit us online at www.infraspection.com

We look forward to working with you.

Jim Seffrin, Director
Infraspection Institute


Infraspection Institute

Thank you all for your help and responses.
So from what I have gathered, it does not really matter if I choose Snell Infrared or Infraspection Institute training as they both are recognized in the IR community and the training learned is pretty much the same for both as they both follow ASNT's guidelines for course outline.

When it comes to "certification" however, it is up to my employer to certify me as there is no other accredited certification standard or program in the US for IR such as in the UK with ISO or other non-training body. Although Infraspection offers the Certified Infrared Thermographer Certification, it is still considered a training institute specific certification and does not hold merit as an actual industry and governmental standard or certification.

Please anyone correct me if I am wrong in any way. This is just what I have gathered from the responses.

The main problem I see with the ASNT system is that employer certification in our industry often means "Self Certification" as so many of us are self employed. However most insurance companies are familar with ASNT and some do understand the problems with possible false certification. This is likely to lead to issues of insurance companies checking out thermographers following claims.

In Europe and particularly in the UK there seems to be a problem with the ISO system as not enough people are applying for the certifying exam, but this should improve as it becomes more recognised and understood. It is in my opinion a better system.

You should not rule out ITC completely as a training company though as all ASNT compliant courses are likely to have a simular content as are all ISO compliant courses. I have experiance of both Snell and ITC and both provide very good training with good content and practical demo's. I have no experiance of Infraspection so I cannot comment other than to say that lifetime certification seems silly.

One minor correction on electricpete's post. Bob Madding works for ITC and not Snell or Infrasepection.

Who decides whether it's ASNT or ISO compliant?

The ISO standard on training and certification for Infrared Thermography is not widely used because it is not yet a standard. With luck, we hope to get this out next year. The standard will provide the outline of the body of knowledge for each category, required training and experience levels for each category, etc. In that respect it is quite like ASNT. Actual certification will be accomplished by a certifying body established by each national standards body.

Ken Culverson

Very interesting information indeed.

So getting back to the Original question at hand:

Snell or Infraspection?

It seems as if the Consensus is both are just as good as the other and are both accepted throughout the industry as proper training. The descision is subjective to the individual.

Thanks to all for your help.

You may also want to consider Advanced Infrared Resources. Wayne Ruddock is their instructor, I got my level I through Wayne when he was with The Infraspection Institute. Most enjoyable training I have ever had.

Not saying the others aren't equally as good, but Wayne did an excellant job and should be considered.

Their website is www.infraredthermography.com.
I would not think you can go wrong with any of these three.

Regards,
Marty

I still have my Thinking Thermally t-shirt from my Snell class five years ago. I thought John and his staff were top-notch.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Seffrin:
As a point of clarification, Infraspection Institute is NOT affiliated with any manufacturer of infrared equipment.
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Sorry, I was mixing up Infraspection and ITC. My bad.

I have attended both the Infraspection Level I course and the Snell Level II. Both were very good courses with a lot of interaction. I've worked with the Eric Jorgenson at the Academy of Infrared Training (http://www.infraredtraining.net) and he's really good also.

As stated previously in this thread, ASNT defines the agenda for these courses, so the content will be pretty much the same, and from what I've seen the quality of the instructors is also.

I wouldn't necessarily exclude vendor specific training, if you have their equipment and software it would make sense to get trained using it, and I've heard good things about FLIR's ITC instructors.

I'd say check the course schedules for all the companies, and chose the one that fits you best.