Hi people,

I'm new in the world of thermography and i was wondering if there are any standards (API, ISO, ASNT, etc.) applicable to this kind of activity?

A little help creating a reading list?

Merry Xmas

HI BRO
YOU CAN GO THROUGH NFPA 7OE WHICH IS MOST REQUIRED FOR ELECTRICAL THERMOGRAPHY.

THANKS & REGARDS

Yes, NFPA 70E addresses safety. There also several OSHA standards on that part.

NFPA 70B has a few words about frequency of inspection and limits. Not tremendously detailed, but it's a start

The EPRI Infrared Guide is a great document to look through if you work for a member utility.

ASTM 1934 has some general motherhood type information about how a thermography survey should be conducted.

I'm not sure exactly what type of info are you looking for. Websites? Limits? Qualification requirements? At any rate, there are some great training classes out there if you haven't taken one. Snell, Infraspection, etc.

You are right Pete. There are a lot of great training classes but seeing the great number of standards applicable to vibration monitoring (ISO, API, etc). I was wondering if that was also the case to thermography.

My aim was originally to have a solid formal basis (In the near future i'll have to work with thermography) in wich to have limits, qualification requirements, and so on. But now my question is: Is thermography really that new?.

Thanks everybody for answering

If you google "history of thermography" you will find a lot of documentation that may answer some of your questions. I think it's been around since the 50's or so. The old cameras were very big, heavy, and expensive. The first one I remember seeing was in the 70's and it was old at that time. It required the thermographer to wear a battery belt to power it and some kind of coolant was used to keep the camera from overheating. I don't know any real detail about it, I was a kid working in a motor shop and one of the engineers used the camera.

Hi Joe,

I was wondering about how they stored the images in those old cameras of 50's? Was it through normal films?

Have a nice day!!

As best I can remember they hooked the camera up to a monitor and took polaroid snapshots of the image on the screen. Like I said above, I didn't have anything to do with IR directly back then, I just stood close to the engineer that did the work sometime. I was working as a machinist/mechanic at that time but was interested in the stuff the engineers were doing. Maybe one of the guys on this board can give you more detail. John Snell, where are you?

Infrared was discovered in 1800 by William Herschel.His son, John Herschel produced the first image in 1840. The first imaging camera was made in Sweden by AGA Bofors around 1958. The first commercial imager was Aga Thermovision Model 661. This came to market in 1969, but even this was VERY large and not really portable, it certainly did not have a battery belt as it required a very large trolly. If you saw a camera in the 70s that had a battery belt, it probably was not that old at the time.

I remember helping to cart one around on a two wheel dolly that we poured liquid nitrogen in for reference. It used a car battery, and used it pretty quick
The pictures were stored on a 5-1/4" disk. Had a bunch of those too. I'm not sure what he had that took the pictures from the monitor to the disk.
This would have been around 1990. I bought an Inframeterics camera in 93 (I think) that was state of the art
You had to wear a battery belt with it if you wanted over 3 or 4 hours shooting time. You couldn't carry enough batteries with you to satisfy that cooler.

Dave

Thanks for jumping in on this discussion Bob & Dave. I was in over my head for sure.

Hi,

For years we have waited for a standard; we are nearly there, check out ISO 18434-1 (currently in draft status for final approval, but available). I also recommend (no axe to grind here!) the Infraspection Institutes Guideline for Inspection of Electrical and Mechanical Systems, which can be had in PDF format for $25.
http://www.infraspection.com/useful_guidelines.html

Chris

Hello for everybody,
I am working in a siderurgical industry and this year i have started to implement the Thermography in the Predictive Maintenance,so
I wonder if someone has standards to monitoring furnaces (holding furnace, etc) with thermography.

I really appreciate your help.

Regards.

quote:

The old cameras were very big, heavy, and expensive. The first one I remember seeing was in the 70's and it was old at that time.

This was from the late 80s and early 90s. It was considered "man portable," weighed in at 20-25# and cost in excess of $60K.

I don't miss the "good, old days!"

quote:

I am working in a siderurgical industry and this year i have started to implement the Thermography in the Predictive Maintenance,so
I wonder if someone has standards to monitoring furnaces (holding furnace, etc) with thermography.

There are not standards to my knowledge. Best to work with engineering to determine what thickness of refractory is considered an alarm and then what surface temperature will be produced as that limit is approached. Err on the side of caution of course!

John

Great photo!

Bring back the Blue Tech jackets! I think that would be a great trademark for Snell inspectors!

Thanks for posting it - what a long way Infrared has come.

Like computers, it seems like IR cameras have gotten smaller and less expensive

Vibration analyzers have gotten smaller and less expensive

Ultrasound has - oops - ultrasound has actually gotten larger and more expensive! What is up with that?

Terry O

quote:

quote:
The old cameras were very big, heavy, and expensive. The first one I remember seeing was in the 70's and it was old at that time.

This was from the late 80s and early 90s. It was considered "man portable," weighed in at 20-25# and cost in excess of $60K.

Thanks for clearing that up John. I guess my memory really is as bad as I say it is. It seemed like it was more than 20 years ago but I bow to your knowledge of this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris WhiteSF:

I also recommend (no axe to grind here!) the Infraspection Institutes Guideline for Inspection of Electrical and Mechanical Systems, which can be had in PDF format for $25.
http://www.infraspection.com/useful_guidelines.html

Chris

Dear All:

As a point of information, Infraspection Institute has just announced the release of eight new standards for infrared thermography. These new standards replace the popular Guidelines that we have been publishing since 1988. Four of the new standards cover thermal imaging applications and four are dedicated to equipment operation and temperature measurement.

Titles of particular interest are listed below. These documents are a 'must have' for anyone providing infrared inspection services.

"¢ Standard for Infrared Inspection of Electrical Systems & Rotating Equipment
"¢ Standard for Infrared Inspection of Insulated Roofs
"¢ Standard for Infrared Inspection of Building Envelopes
"¢ Standard for Infrared Inspections to Detect Pests and Pest Related Damage


For information on other available titles, please visit the Infraspection Institute website.

Copies of the new Infraspection standards are available in PDF format and may be purchased by calling Infraspection Institute at 609-239-4788 or visiting the Infraspection Online Store.


Hope this is helpful.


Jim Seffrin, Director
Infraspection Institute

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jim Seffrin,

Hello, I am doing the inspections by Thermographic in my work (furnace, electrical panels, electrical substations, etc), especially for electrical parts (breakers, contactors, reles, ..etc) as you know the amount of this kind of components in all the plants are many, so in my case I make the inspections with the camera and when I find a problem in a component I take the thermogram of the problem in order to analize it, so I wonder If this kind of inspections is correct?? or Do you think that I should take a thermogram of each electric component in order to monitoring each component (similar to monitoring rotating machines with vibration).

I will appreciate your comments.

Regards

Very good question! There are several different approaches to using thermography. I'd say what you are currently doing is what we can "exception-based" work, meaning you are looking for abnormalities or differences. This can work very well for large facilities with a great deal of equipment.

I would urge you, however, to make certain you have prioritized the equipment and established inspection routes and frequencies based on that analysis. Without this, you will miss finding problems. Adjust the frequency of inspection based on the findings. That is, if you find many problems, keep inspecting frequently. If you find only a few, you may inspect less often.

Some assets are either so complex or so valuable or, if they failed, would be so costly, that you should consider conducting what we call a BASELINE inspection. This is a much more detailed look in which you record many images and other baseline data. Later you can compare these, as needed, to followup inspections.

There are many good resources available about how to implement thermography, including the Proceedings from conferences like Reliability, PdM and Thermal Solutions, as well as good basic conferences and training courses that can help you make your program as efficient as possible. We have all learned from each other and that is one of the great things about this messageboard.

Hi John, Thank you for your comments, but I have others questions about this.
I have my schedule of thermographic inspections (routes, frequencies,etc), for example, every six months I checked the furnaces, and for transformers and electrical components such a breakers (medium and low voltage), cables....etc the frequency is every three months. Well This is my start point, I just have started my thermographic inspection this year, I try to learn as much I can in every inspection....Do you think that this frequencies are correct??...another question, as you can see I dont have enough data to analyze a tendency, other problem is that The load, electric current is variable, so Its really difficult to measure in the same operational conditions, for that reason when I analize a thermogram I consider to evaluate the problem by comparison, for example in a three-phase breaker, If I have one line with 20ºC, other with 21ºC and other with 30ºC, I consider that the line with 30ºC have a problem, without considering too the load or tendency, I just look a table that I make in function some standars that I found which I add in this post in order to being evaluated for you. I am a beginner in this kind of inspection and also as a analist, for that reason maybe I made a mistake, but I just try to improve the thermography in my plant. I hope the way in which I am carrying out the thermographic is not the worst.

I will appreciate your support.

Regards.

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