Many articles have been published indicating that oil should be changed not based on the running hours or amount of time that it had been in service but upon the number of contaminants present in the oil and it make sense to me.

With the application of specialized high beta rating filters now on the market and regular oil analysis tests, is it really possible to declare a no change policy in your lube.

Is it really possible not to change your oil ?

Appreciate your feedback.

Regards,

Rolly Angeles

Rolly what high beta rating filter? How many microns can it filter?

You forgot to mention online oil analysis?

I thought lube oil is designed to be replaced when necessary, not to last forever?

ISOPur has a customer in Connecticut that has not changed or sweetened their oil in 8 years the additve pack in the oil remains within 90 % of original and many times cleaner than you could buy new. There are too many variable to say it would be possible to never chande your oil, however, with the proper testing readditization of your oil when necessary and state of the art filtration, ISOPur can offer a product that will dramatically extens tha life of your oil and the wear parts in your machinery.

Please call me with any questions

David Cummings
ISOPur Fluid Technology
860-599-1872

In addition to particulate contaminants, some other factors associated with oil aging:

1 - depletion of additives
2 - oxidation of the base oil (as measured by TOST or RPVOT tests)

quote:

Originally posted by electricpete:
In addition to particulate contaminants, some other factors associated with oil aging:

1 - depletion of additives
2 - oxidation of the base oil (as measured by TOST or RPVOT tests)

To add to what electricpete rightly says, there are many factors to consider. A large steam turbine with good water separation facilities and good filtration (and a good quality turbine oil) should not need an oil change or extra additives in its 25 odd year lifetime. A high speed Sundyne pump gearbox requires new oil every 6 months. Oxidation is a major problem in hard working gas turbine oils. Interpreting the results of RBOT (RPVOT) tests has not been very successful with group 2 base oils and they have a lower "dirt" carrying capacity so though they are good at resisting oxidation, once it forms they are not good at carrying it and you may have to change oils more often with these oils rather than less.
There is no simple answer to the initial question except to say that it is in the interests of the oil sppliers to have you change oil more frequently.

I believe that the no oil change is not a myth and it can be done. Once the oil is kept clean them there is no reason to change it.

Once the oil is clean (ISO Standards), additives does not deplete, Oil can be change indefinitely.

I had heard that some oil additives are mechanical in nature. Sounds like they could be cut down in size until they can no longer perform their function.

Dear All,

Just would like to share with you this article Does Oil Wear Out ?
http://www.rsareliability.com/newsletterdecember2007issue.htm


My Warm Regards,

Good question Rolly,

I agreee with you about changing oil when its needed rather than on a running hours basis, but i'm afraid that it would be impossible not to change oil.

And the reason for that is that no matter how advanced the lubrication sistems (lube, filters, etc) can get, you'll still have friction and mechanical wear on your machines.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mechanical pawn,

On top of normal mechanical wear there is an issue with oxidation. If machine runs with fairly low temperatures the oil can last a long time. On smaller equipment the companies tend to replace oil too often as this is not too expensive and the oil quantities in the machine don't justify oil analysis. With the bigger oil consoles (I prefer 55 gallons or higher) oil analysis is viable test. I used to have some Joy air compressors (motor and turbine driven) that oil was changed after 10 years and even at that time did not show any major deterioration.

There are a lot of factors involved when considering a "no change" lube oil policy.
1) Environment (dust, mining, humidity, rain forest, on top of the mount Everest etc..)

2) Stationary or mobile equipment; it makes a lot of difference if the equipment is in a nice ventilated factory building (5S etc. in place) or somewhere in the middle of a swamp

3) How much will we gain; if the cost of monitoring/analysis is greater than changing the oil, it is easy to predict what will happen

4) The technology is getting more and more advanced, but still we need someone to take a sample just by opening something, and this individual also must be trained etc.. and his runner-up etc...

5) The infrastructure most be developed, with every new "silver bullet" there will be resistance, if something goes wrong, you will be surprised how many people appear pointing finger and say "I told you so", even people who can't distinguish lube oil from apple juice

Thanks for the interesting article Rolly.

Steven makes good points that there are many factors to consider in deciding whether periodic oil change is appropriate (and at what frequency) depending on the application and circumstances.

For oil degradation rate, if the oil runs very hot and is exposed to aeration, moisture and contaminants, it will surely oxidize and lose its life quickly.

And there are economic factors that drive some applications: is it cheaper to sample/analyse or just replace when we account for all the costs.

Another factor is sump size. We have 800 hp vertical motors where the upper oil reservoir is only 8 ounces of oil (!). Once you flush and draw a sample... you have already drained the oil. It may still be sampled for machinery health, but not for oil change... a sample is an oil change.
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As I recall, one of the guys at Noria (Drew?) was a very big proponent of no oil change for many applications. I think one of his main points was that the oil change itself is a source of potential contamination.

I think you are also suggesting (like Noria) that the "no oil change" option is underappreciated in some circles. It may be the case (I don't know). At our plant we have a wide variety of equipment... we perform time based oil change on some but not others, depending on our own evaluation of the individual application.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: electricpete,

I wonder if a car could be redesigned for no oil changes?

You would have to improve the filtering and provide a means to change the filter without changing the oil.

Seems like it could be a clever marketing gimmick to provide this feature in a car and promote it as a greener approach to oil changes. My gut feel is it would be less reliable and more expensive in the long run.

I also think it would be less reliable, one of the functions of engine oil is to wash soot and other combustion by-products out of the cylinders.

Years ago a salesman from an Big oil company told me that if your engine oil was not black (still clean) after changing, the oil wasn't doing what its supposed to do.

Electripete and all,

No oil change state of the art would it be possible ?

My answer : YES

Would it be feasible : Now this is something that I always do not agree. If you are going to use this for your vehicle, a single car then I guess it's better to go for the traditional oil change. In singapore every 4 or 5 years all vehicle owners must change their cars to a newer model, then again no oil change would not be feasible at this stage.

But if you own a large fleet of peterbuilts, trucks then by-pass would definitely be to your advantage in terms of reliability and cost in the long run.

What makes oil black, its the sooth that escape through the piston rings due to blow bye. Usually this is in the range of 3 microns, hence if you have a 1 or 2 micron absolute filter with a high beta rating minimum of 200 which means this has an efficiency of 99.5%

Here is a link on how this filter works, again it is not a substitute for the original filter but rather this is a by-pass filter in which its connection must in no way affect the original connection of the original oil filter.

Although I do not endorse any filter as I am not a saleman, my intention is just to let you see how this filtration works and how sooth is being removed from the oil through this type of filter.

http://filtrationsolutionsww.com/fs-2500_video.htm

My Warm Regards,