Why dont cars have a secondary filtration system or by-pass filtration system with a high efficiency rating in removing particles less than 3 microns.

Almost all cars are designed with a full-flow filter to remove only a certain range of contaminants from the engine oil, in the range from 30 to 40 microns, wherien efficiency would be at around 50% or more or less a beta 2 rating. And the most destructive contaminants will range from 20 microns and below those that will cause abrasion when stuck up between clearance ?

Warm Regards,


Rolly Angeles
Teacher

Lack of interest to make cars more efficient, competency not enough?
Lack of some regulation to enforce they make them better? They started to increase motor performance (miles per gallon) when some goverment pushed some laws.

I do not imagine GM, Toyota, or Volvo engineers not thinking of this before.

Why we have oil change recommended every 3k miles wile Europe allows twice as high? There would be not too much profit for oil and car companies.

quote:

Originally posted by Eugene:
Lack of some regulation to enforce they make them better? They started to increase motor performance (miles per gallon) when some goverment pushed some laws.

I am not a resident from the US, but this is what I have to say about that . . . Extracted from my training materials on Lubrication Strategy and Contamination Control

The US Congress has recently authorized a study on bypass filtration as an energy saving and environmental protection.Florida Congressmen Peter Deutsch and Cliff Stearn introduce
legislation designed to promote oil bypass filtration as a means of saving on motor oil costs and protecting the environment against groundwater pollution. Purpose of their legislation is to promote the use of oil bypass
filtration technology (OBF) in vehicles by Directing the Department of Energy and Environmental Protection Agency to conduct a joint study on the benefits of OBF in terms f reduced demand for oil and potential environmental benefits. Requiring the secretary and administrator to examine the feasibility of using OBF in Federal Motor Vehicle Fleet.The new bill was accepted by the committee and is now part to be section 163 of the Energy Advancement and Conversation Act of 2001 (HR 2587)

quote:

I do not imagine GM, Toyota, or Volvo engineers not thinking of this before.

SAE Technical Paper which reported a test performed by General Motors AC Delco Division on their Detroit Diesel engines states in their graph that if all 10 microns contaminants can be removed from the oil, projected engine life can last up to 6x of its original life.

I think car manufacturers know they just dont want to expose the truth.

Kindly look at this attachment. How do we explain this.

My Warm Regards,

Rolly Angeles
Teacher

Oil_change.ppt (250 Kb, 39 downloads)

How much are you prepared to pay to buy a new car with a warrantable bypass filtration system with the accompanying differential indicators, lights, certification, etc. If people want to adapt their engine it is not rocket science to plumb a small pump, filter head with dp gauge and associated piping. Obviously the trucks in Rolly's attachment had this done.

Without demand, or regulation, these sort of technology advances do not happen, and it is the consumer who creates demand. I have not noticed any aftermarket units for cars, but then again, I have not looked. Perhaps this is a viable business opportunity.

My 2001 Ford truck recommends 5K mile oil changes even if the dealer does try to insist that it should be 3K. After all, "we've always done it that way."

Ken Culverson

Rolly,

Please email me. mjohnson@amrri.com

Thanks

How long do you think auto manufactures want an engine (or transmission for that matter) to last?

I'm sure the engineers do studies to find the proper life cycle for the engine to match the rest of the car.

By-pass filtration has been around for at least 50 years. I have been using by-pass filtration for the 7 years and have saved many oil changes due to the fact.

Personally I think that auto manufactures could put a 12 quart oil sump, by pass filter, and synthetic oil. Seal the engine and go 100,000 miles or more without an oil change.

What do you all think?

As Mr. Sparks eluded, Amsoil actually makes an excellent bypass filtration unit. Although the micron particle filtration for most "high performance" oil filters is around 10 micron in the U.S. there are still sub par filters circulating the market. I have done Oil Analysis on my 2006 Ford for the past 14K miles and with their 5K mile change interval and 10 micron filtration, I have not seen anything that was remotely alarming. I believe it is all the cold starts and general poor maintenance that leads to an engine's early termination. There are several other factors at hand outside of simple oil filtration.

Hello To All,

First we need to understand what is important in the filter is not how big or small its micron rating is, say 10 microns, 3 microns, 1 micron. This is irrelevant.

What is important is the efficiency of your filter rating is it nominal filtration or absolute filtration. A nominal filtration filter is only guaranteed to remove around 50% of the contaminants in the oil, hence if you have 100,000 contaminants in different size ranges entering your inlet or upstream of the filter, then your nominal filter will only capture 50,000 of it since its efficiency is 50% hence, it has a beta rating of 2.

Now what happens to the other 50,000 that goes together with the oil out in the outlet or downstream of the filter, perhaps it may suspend in the oil, others get stuck on piston, bearings, rod etc. causing abrasive wear to occur.


My Warm Regards,


Rolly Angeles
Teacher

Rolly Beat me to it.

It is correct in saying you must look at efficiency rating as well as the micron rating.

Go in to the auto parts store and look at a off the shelf filter and it might say 96% efficient, but doesn't state at what micron (could be 50 microns or something) Other filters will say it's a 10 micron rating but not list the efficiency, it could only be 20% efficient at 10 microns. Heck a screen door screen will stop particles in the 10 micron range as the get stuck on the actual fibers.

Amsoil's has a full flow line that uses technology from Donaldson uses advanced synthetic media technology to be 98.7 at 15 microns. This where you want to be on the look out. Find the efficiency at what micron. This filter is still 50% efficient at 7 microns.

With the by-pass filter technology, it is 98.7% at 2 microns. But bear in mind that only a portion of the oil is flowing through this filter hence the reason it's call "bypass".

The filter is also capable of removing approx, 39% of soot contaminants less than 1 micron.

Rolly,
Are micron ratings really irrelevent? I've always been told that you want to match the micron rating to the clearances of the moving parts because it's particles that are the same size as the clearances that cause the most damage. So it seems to me that you would first want to determine what micron rating you need, then determine the beta ration, then determine other things (like dirt holding capacity, type of filter construction, integrity of the manufacturer, etc).

It doesn't matter what clearances your talking about. Removing more (and smaller) wear causing particles will help reduce wear and will also allow the additive package to last longer.

I would rather have the best micron rating I can find.

Mike - It seems to me that clearances WOULD matter when attempting to purchase the correct filter. Why spend the extra money on a 5 micron filter when the clearances you are working with only require a 10 micron filter? Additionally, a 5-micron filter won't last as long, so there's added cost there. I understand your point about the additives, though (at least I think I do). Don't particle contaminants of any size have an effect on additives?

Hans,

Sorry for the delayed reply, there are 2 types of filters nominal and absolute rating, nominal filtration have an efficiency of 50% or less while an absolute rating have an efficiency of 98.5 % and more, this is where they assign the beta rating of a filter.

Now let me compare the two for a better judgement on why I say that micron size are not that important as compared to the efficiency of the filter.

Say we have a 10 micron filter with a beta rating of 2 and an efficiency of 50%, if we have around 100,000 contaminants entering the upstream of the filter, the filter will be capable to trap only 50% of the particles on 10 microns and above, what happens to the other half, 50,000, it will pass through the filter just as readily as the oil.

Let us note that the primary function of a filter is to trapped fatigue and abrasive particles on the oil which can harm or damage our system wether we speak about mobile, hydraulics etc.

Now if we have a 10 micron absolute filtration with a beta rating of 200 and an efficiency of 99.5%, then the filter will guarantee to remove 99.5% of the 100,000 contaminants or 99,500 particles in the oil as compared to 50,000 for a nominal filtration.

Most secondary filtration or by-pass filters in mobile equipments are absolute in rating, they place this since around 99 % of full flow filters or primary filters are nominal in rating.

Again it is called a by-pass since this cannot replace the primary filter since it will induce oil starvation.

Hope I make myself clear hear.

My Warm Regards,


Rolly Angeles
Teacher

Hans,

Hope your still around this forum to read this, I say that the if we speak about primary filtration then clearance will matter a lot. But by-pass filtration means a secondary filtration that will be place which will be independent of the primary filtration. The lines or pressurize hose should not in anyway be connected to the primary filtration in which every car have, otherwise this will compromise the flow of oil circultating into the engine system.

For secondary or by-pass filtration, this would refer to an independent system being place in the vehicle with no pump, its flow will be slow and the folow will be based gravity.

My warm regards,