We have been doing the vibration / balancing / alignment thing now for 12 or 13 years. I have a major customer that wants us to perform oil analysis, which we know absolutely nothing about.
They are willing to put up with us climbing the learning curve. Currently we use RBMware, one of the earlier versions. We do not have any oil testing equipment, I am sure however that they are OK with us factoring in the cost of such in the service. How should we begin this? The customer (a large corporation) uses emerson process at their other facilities and is sold on intermeshing oil, vibration and ultrasonic.

Any advise?

ALan

Oil analysis - another great tool in the engineers' box of tricks to help improve his predictive maintenance accuracy.

I would suggest that you start with a "Mini lab" such as the CSI 5200. This is all you need initially to get you going. With this you can "trend" all the elements of an oil sample including Wear Parameters such as Iron and other metal particles, Contamination Parameters such as non ferrous contaminants and Chemistry Parameters such as deteroriation of the lubricating properties of the sample. As with vibration, you can plot the results and watch a potential problem developing. This could then be supported by the more detailed analysis of having ferrography (Wear Particle Analysis) carried out by an outside lab as and when you detect particle contamination of a sample. With this combination you should be able to keep a very good hold of their lube oil condition without a huge financial outlay.
Hope this helps

cheddarcaveman@yahoo.co.uk
Hope this helps.

cheddarcaveman@yahoo.co.uk

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cheddar-caveman,

'Trend all the elements' may be a bit of a strong statement for any mini-lab. Certainly a minilab, either the one you mentioned or another, can enable testing of some important parameters: viscosity, oxidation, solid contaminants, rough cut on wear metals. These are without question important.

However, I would suggest stepping back one more step and begin educating yourself about what oil analysis is, why standardized test methods are important, how the tests are conducted (for the sake of understangind what the data means) how a commercial or in-plant lab may be useful, and how to go about collecting samples that are dependable. Garbage in - garbage out. Know what you want to measure before you begin spending money on trying to measure it.

STLE offers courses in oil analysis that will provide this type of base level support.

The subject has come up before for large facilities - should they do their own testing or use a dedicated oil lab.

Your situation is not too much different although you are a 3rd party in the mix.

I personally think in most situations, the best approach would be to go with a lab that does nothing but oil analysis (for example Herguth). The advantages are:
1 - You send the samples and you're done. They maintain a database of results that you can access on-line. Also they provide a means to electically convert that data into our Emonitor database.
2 - They provide recommendations regarding equipment condition based on the analysis. (It's not the final recommendation but it's a good starting point).
3 - If you have questions, you can call and ask and they are very knowledgeable.
4 - They typically save the sample for a few weeks. If you see something unusual, call them up and they can usually run additional tests such as analytical ferrography (for a small fee).
5 - I'm not sure you can do the analysis cheaper than a dedicated lab. But even if you could, would it be a better analysis? And would the small savings be worthwhile if you missed a call because of it?

That's just my opinion. I've only seen one side of it which is working with an off-site lab and it works great. I've never seen the other side which is trying to do the tests ourselves, but it sounds pretty intimidating to me.

So maybe an option you should look at is taking the samples for the client and sending them off to a dedicated oil lab like Herguth, and then coordinating with the lab to get the results into the database?

Allan,

What is important is to determine how many types of oil you use. There are around 200 test or more on oil analysis and knowing the best. There are many different type of test that can be conducted on oil analysis,Oil analysis evaluates the oil and contamination that is present. Each test look at a different aspect of the oil, knowing the test that’s best suit your industry, can derived benefits from its application.

I did make some project study on Oil Analysis when I was still employed in a Mining firm here at our country. I can share them with you if your interested. Kindly send me an email at rolaa12@yahoo.com

I also have a training material on Lubrication Strategy and Oil analysis however it comes with a fee, it details the importance of oil contamination and how to prevent them as well as the type of analysis to be done on the oil.

Cheers,

Rolly Angeles

quote:

Originally posted by Rolly12:
Allan,

What is important is to determine how many types of oil you use. There are around 200 test or more on oil analysis both on use and new oil. Oil analysis evaluates the oil and contamination that is present. Each test look at a different aspect of the oil, knowing the test that’s best suit your industry, can derived the most benefits from its application.

I did make some project study on Oil Analysis when I was still employed in a Mining firm here at our country. I can share them with you if your interested. Kindly send me an email at rolaa12@yahoo.com

I also have a training material on Lubrication Strategy and Oil analysis however it comes with a fee, it details the importance of oil contamination and how to prevent them as well as the type of analysis to be done on the oil.

Cheers,

Rolly Angeles

Hello Allan,

All good points... my suggestion would be for a minilab. Nothing compares with having the infomation right when you need it. As Cheddar mentioned if your results warrent more testing than you are capable of, then is the time to send the sample to the dedicated lab. Also send a sample to the dedicated lab for periodic special testing such as tests to trend additives depletion and oxidation.

Taking a course on fluid analysis (hydraulic and lubrication oils) would be the first step I would take. You are ahead of the game since you perform the vibration analysis, so you know the machines like they were your children. But if you do not fully understand the testing and the capabilities and limitations of each test, It could then lead to flawed conclusions.

Courses that you should take would have to include fluid properties, preferred sampling locations on a machine, determining cleanliness targets to start with.

The STLE is a good group, but in my view it seems like it is made up of too many chemists and engineers rather than 'people on the floor' like most of us on this board are.

<<Shamless Company Plug>>

www.tricocorp.com The company I currently work for does have plublic training sessions in Canada and the US on lubrication (MLT 1,2 & 3)

<<End Shameless Company Plug>>

Obviously, there are many other companies that offer oil related training. Take a look around at the offerings. There are also enough good books out there that can give you a head start, My favorite is "bird bones and SLUDGE" which is a Vickers publication (not owned by Easton?) if you can find it. It mainly deals with hydraulic systems which are more sensitive to contaminants.

If you have any questions when (and if) you do start, I'm trying to keep up on this section of the message boards and will try to help.

Regards,