There are a lot of difference certifications covering various PdM technologies, including Vibration Analysis, Infrared, Oil Analysis, Airborne Ultrasonics, Lubrication (no motor testing that I am aware of). Some are based on ASTM (SNT TC 1A) and others are based on ISO Standards. Some are even issued by the vendors who provided the training.

Our research shows that gaining an initial certification or attaining the next level of certification does not seem to have much affect on take home pay.

That seems odd as in almost every industry - when you earn a certification - you also earn a monetary reward.

Is it that employers do not value these PdM certifications? And if they do not value them, why not?

Can anyone shed some light on the wonderful world of PdM Certfications? Is there a better way forward?

Our company carries industrial insurance which provides certain coverage related to catastrohpic failure of large equipment.
Nuclear Electric Insurance Limited is the insurance provider. They provide reduction in premiums based on predictive maintenance programs in place. The reduction is bigger if the predictive staff is certified to SNTC-1 or whatever it is. In the case of infrared program the reduction doubles. I don't recall exactly how much $ that translates to but I am planning to do a cost-benefit analysis on bringing our program into SNTC compliance shortly so I will get that info.

The savings were smaller for vib and we already determined not cost effective.

Bottom line is that if other insurance companies are persuaded of the benefit, it will provide incentive.

I currently have 3 cert's 2 in vibe and 1 in thermography and have put in for 2 more, another vibe level and 1 in ultrasonics. We have been trying to get a "world class" program going for years. As for monetary compensation, I get it in a round about way, Overtime. I personally believe that this would not be so if I didn't stay behind all the time reason being I also work on my tools. Change is in the air, so I am being told though. I've heard that a pdm tech normally makes 3 to 5 percent more than a normal tech. Can anyone shed some light on that.

I'm a Licensed Millwright (20+ yrs) and I took the time to train, learn, enjoy, dedicate myself to the Vibration field. I'm certified to ISO/FDIS 18436-2 standards as put out by the CMVA and Vibration Institute not to mention that I can actually do this job reasonably well. I earn the same as any other millwright here. It bugs me once in a while but I don't linger on it. I'm told that I can earn a lot more elsewhere but haven't taken the time to look as of yet.

When I started in 1985, there weren't many certifications other than those offered from "comprehensive 1 week training seminars". Most of us learned it by trial and error. Certification hasn't made me any better than I would have been, it just recognizes what little I do know.

In North Carolina, everyone in trades, from beauticians to plumbers, has to be state certified, and receive so many hours of continuing education per year. Most of this is just to put money in the state's coffers, I suspect. Reliability analysts aren't state certified here. Not sure about anywhere else.

I've worked with people who had refrigeration certification who couldn't plug a window unit in, and others who had no certification, who were excellent technicians.

Many certifications simply demonstrate how well someone can prepare for a test.

Terrence,
A few months ago at RCM-2005, I posed the question to you and others at the dinner table concerning acquiring a degree in Reliability Engineering.
One of the gentlemen at the table indicated that some discussion had taken place at a college in Tenn. concerning that subject, but nothing formal has been established yet. I believe he said there are some reliability courses offered as part of a mechanical engineering degree. You pose the question "Is there a better way forward?".
In my experience, most companies value degrees over certifications. We've already established through the previous responses that some companies don't appreciate (by way of pay) the benefit of having a good reliability person. I also know from personal experience, that in the service industry when dealing with customers it's better to have a degree than a certification. I regulary deal with mechanical and electrical engineers. Several times, as I was working through a problem with a customer, they asked me where I went to college. You could physically see the change in their attitude towards me when they found out I don't have a degree. I guess 20+ years professional maintenance experience, with 10 years of that focusing on reliability technologies, Vibe II ASNT certification and the fact that I was able to solve the problem that they and their degrees couldn't solve, doesn't mean anything to them. Stan, I agree that certifications, or a degree hanging on the wall doesn't mean a person is capable of anything other than passing tests. However, I've come to the sad conclusion that if we ever expect to get the respect (and pay) that we feel we deserve, we need to pursue getting "Reliability Engineering" as a degreed trade. I'm not sure how to pursue that end, but I'll be happy to work with anyone who has some ideas.

Don, I don't disagree with you on education. Much of the reason that I've been successful in this field is due to physics, technical math, statics and dynamics, and so on that I learned about in college (AAS Degree in Machinist Technology). However, just as important was what I learned on the wooden side of an 8 lb. sledgehammer!

I suspect most degreed mechanical engineers have learned enough theory to understand much about reliability, but only through doing it could they learn the practical side. And I've never been around many degreed engineers who are willing to do millwright work. I'm sure there are some - just that I don't know any.

Maybe someone else knows - isn't there a Tech School in Knoxville, TN that has a program in Reliability? Are there others?

I believe competencies should be assessed & rewarded accordingly. TQ

Good Post
It should not matter if you have a degree or not. In doing this job one eventially becomes a machinery diagnostic or predictive maintenace specialist no matter if you started out as a machinist or engineer. How well you do depends on a lot. I do believe that the peple doing this work should be paid and given the same respect based on the level of work you are doing.

Recently, in my work I have found PdM technicians whose primary job was plumbers fixing toilets then doing PdM work as needed.
And they were wondering why there program was lacking.

There is not a degree program that I can find that offers a degree in Predictive Maintenance. However, the University of TN does offer a Reliability Engineering speciality as part of the Mechanical Engineering degree program. Keep in mind Reliability Engineering is not exactly predictive maintenance. Close but not the same.

Those of use that do this work come from many backgrounds with one common goal of improving the operational performance and reliability of machinery thorugh accuract diagnosis and analysis of data.

We should all know a fair amount about data acquisition, signal processing, computers, vibration, infrared, acoustics, tribology, rotor dynamics, etc. to call our selves predictive maintenance or machinery specialists. There are degreed and non degreed people that are respected specialists in their field that do get paid based on their level of expertise and experience.

The ones who look at you differently just because you don't have a degree are fools.

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Terry O: That seems odd as in almost every industry - when you earn a certification - you also earn a monetary reward.

Which industries are those and how much are they paying?

I earned my certs whilst at the ol' mill and they didn't offer anything. But then again I was salaried-exempt--exempt from those sorts of things. I also earned my PE license and no check was handed out then, either.

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TO: Is it that employers do not value these PdM certifications? And if they do not value them, why not?

I think it depends on the employer. In the consulting field, I think they're more for marketing--letting your clients know that you've achieved a certain level and that they should be able to expect certain things from you. In a plant or in-house situation, it depends on your labor arrangement and how compensation is doled out. If you're in a 'longer you've been here the more you get paid' environment then all the certifications in the world won't change your paycheck.

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Stan R: I suspect most degreed mechanical engineers have learned enough theory to understand much about reliability, but only through doing it could they learn the practical side.

As a degreed ME, I agree. It really doesn't make sense until you do it yourself. For all the years of calculus and differential equations I took, I've only ever had to integrate something once. And even then I probably didn't have to, but I wanted to see if I still knew how. For all the gear design calculations you go through, you don't get it until you see the inside of a gearbox. I could go on, but my battery is getting low.

T.O.

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Is it that employers do not value these PdM certifications? And if they do not value them, why not?

Can anyone shed some light on the wonderful world of PdM Certfications? Is there a better way forward?

I take the word "value" to mean MONEY & RESPECT. Both of which have to be earned.
Attaining certifications or a degree doesn't seem to gain many of us money or respect as long as we stay in the same organization, but will help when applying for other jobs. I've never quite figured out why, but even good companies who seem to value good employees, might give out 3% pay increases yearly no matter how much a person improves. When you factor in inflation, that's not improving your situation much. Some companies give out a set raise to everyone regardless of their efforts. However another "standard" that seems to hold true in our career field, is that changing employers will gain you about 10% pay increase. My first move didn't require a degree in rocket science to help me calculate my decision. My hourly pay went up 80%. NO LIE!!!!
I would much rather have stayed put, but I was in the same situation that "vibbase" seems to be in. So, why didn't that company appreciate and reward my efforts???? I think it's because they didn't understand just how much work went into doing what I did. I know certifications didn't mean anything to them. Perhaps I have a paradigm, but I'm of the opinion that people with degrees are taken more seriously than those who don't. I agree with "S.Hatfield" that it shouldn't make a difference. Ultimately we are all evaluated on our abilities, by those around us. However, many of the decisions concerning our careers (pay) are made by people who don't even know us. For those of you who do have degrees, do you find that it "opens more doors" for you even if your degree doesn't pertain to RCM? Do you get more respect and pay? If I want to get a degree to help me with my job as a "reliability engineer", what kind of a degree would you suggest? Like Terence, I want to know if there's a better way forward. I think our career field is like the medical field. There's so much too it, that you can be a general practitioner or specialize in one field. Something that I think we should all work towards is a standard lay-out of just what it is we do. There seems to be a lot of confusion, even among ourselves, as to just what we are. What's your title?
If we can define ourselves as a group, and gain the understanding of our employers and customers, the respect will come. Once we gain respect, the pay will come too.

A lot of interesting comments. An alternative to certification, or naybe an addition to it, is to do formal study with detailed assessment, towardsw a qualification. Mention of a "Tenn University" must have meant UT at Knoxville, who have collaborated with us at Monash since 2000 in our off campus learning programs. Visit http://www.engr.utk.edu/mrc for details. We currently have 37 students in North America, and growing.

Just as with certification, formal qualifications do not guarantee top performance, but must be an indicator that the person has invested signifiant hours in study, learning and thinking through in the MRE field. This must place them ahead of others who have not put in such effort. Many of our students have reported promotions and salary jumps, even while studying, so some employers see and recognise benefits.

Ray Beebe

Actually, the two engineering degrees that provide a focus on reliability, logistics and systems engineering are General and Industrial Engineering. While I have been widely regarded as an Electrical Engineer, my maintenance and reliability background actually comes from a combination of practical experience, certifications in several disciplines and my PhD in General Engineering. In order to effectively teach electrical maintenance and reliability, at the University of Illinois at Chicago (1997-1999), I taught Industrial Engineering.

You are the better when you do the best, and this is the true when each one of us do the best each day of our life since our early life but , what happen when in a country the people put above the parental relation over the qualification.

imho

When an employer is looking for a new employee, certifications and degrees carry an inordinate weight. Experience is of course more important, but is a little more subjective and difficult to judge by the H.R. types. Things that are quantitative like certs stand out.

When rewarding existing employees, they care about your performance. And they can judge that without knowing anything about your certs. They are not likely going to give you any pay raise for earning a cert but they should (?) gives raises over time for sustained performance.

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what happens when in a country the people put above the parental relation over the qualification

Still searching for the country that doesn't, I can't imagine Bill Gates Jr being the waiter at Micro$oft.

The value of certifications? It depends of the company. The individual holding the certification has to prove his value, just like any other employee. I would say a 1 time bonus, to stimulate further self-educating, and the rest is up to the individual (and his bosses of course).
People who want to move higher in the food chain pursue a degree, most likely the MBA courses are full of these types, and since it is "long + expensive" study, a promotion is likely to come, or they leave the company complaining.

Another industry where there is a lot of discussion about certification and the "mandatory big paycheck", is the IT industry.
We should be aware that "over"certification will cause the same effects for maintenance professionals.

I thought this thread was so relevant to some of what I see that I had to throw in my 2 cents.

The way I look at it, there are two different scenarios: either the company requires you to do it or you seek to gain knowledge and certifications on your own. Generally, a person who consistently does things that they don't have to do to improve their abilities is also one who would be a good performer. By doing things that others don't do, whether its obtaining additional education, certifications, or whatever, these people naturally expect at least some improvement their market value. However, I don't think a lot of companies take this into consideration. Many of them value a position based on the $ amount that they would have to pay someone to fill it were it to become vacant, without giving a great deal of consideration to how well the person in the position might be performing or how unlikely it is to find a comparable replacement (or how much a comparable replacement might cost). Of course, if they require you to gain certifications, they look at it like it's just another part of your job, so there naturally is no added compensation.

When I earned my PE, I felt like the company's position was, "We didn't require you to do it, so don't expect anything." Unfortunately, the licenses and certifications that they did require me to obtain didn't get me anything either. This doesn't just apply to certifications, but education also. If you earn an MBA as I did, for example, chances are that the company is not going to create a new position just so you can earn some extra bucks. The potential employer will consider that work a lot more than your current one. This is really unfortunate, both for the company and for the employee that is otherwise motivated and satisfied with their job. Still, it's what I've found to be factual at a lot of firms.

It's amazing to me how management doesn't realize what motivates people. Many of them strongly believe that non-monetary recognition yields much more long-term positive effect than a good raise or a bonus. Am I the only one that thinks that this is insane? I am often insulted or embarrassed by their idea of what motivates employees. My current employer, in recognition for a good financial quarter, hires an ice cream truck to drive through the plant so I can get a free strawberry short cake bar. (I like ice cream, but I could buy a ton of it if I was getting paid for all the continuing education I have to do on my own time to maintain the certs that they require.) I think companies want to keep their top performers, but many of them certainly don't seem to understand (or learn) what is required to do so.

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Generally, a person who consistently does things that they don't have to do to improve their abilities is also one who would be a good performer

Wrong,
If it is in general benefit of the company, and he/she shares his knowledge, this person will be recognized by his peers and bosses, and will be consulted when something "special" appears. And if he/she completes his assigned duties in a proffesional way.
The other negative side:
This persons has not enough work.
This person must mind his own bussiness.
This person wants to proof something.

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Many of them strongly believe that non-monetary recognition yields much more long-term positive effect than a good raise or a bonus

Me too

When you start working, the monetary reward is "very" important. When the basic needs (food/shelter) are covered other things become more important (status, recognition etc..)
From a business point of view, there comes a point that raising salary cannot improve productivity anymore, so you have to look for "non tangible" solutions like family days, tokens, employee of the month, a lunch with the staff (wife included) or give everyone icecream.

All this stuff is exhaustively explained in the Maslov Pyramid

Well once you are self actualized - money is less motivating unless:

Your mortgage interest rates go up

Your insurance premium rises

You have unexpected astronomical health care bills

Gas goes to $70 a barrel

If me - the employee - and him - the company owner - each have enough to feed and shelter our families and I can develop a reliability action plan to deliver millions of dollars to the bottom line - should I be happy with the free ice cream as a reward?

If you want results - pay for them. The best and brightest today are knowledge workers and they are the ones who can demand reward for result or seek a new company to apply those same results to.

It is knowledge workers who are in short supply - not dysfunctional companies.

Terry O

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Terrence O'Hanlon,

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Maslov Pyramid