Thanks for the pyramid Terence, I didn't had the english translation. According to my instructor, a very few reach the top (that is why it is a pyramid), the selected few will not loose sleep over mortgage interest.
So I asked who are likely to be encounterd in the top, his answer: mother Theresa, the Pope, Bill Gates, the president of the USA, Stephen Hawkins etc..
We are most likely at Level 3, we have some time to discuss higher goals, abstract methods, yet we don't have to worry if there is food on the table tomorrow morning.
By the way, the gas price doubled at the pump overhere, probably I fell down a level..

We can all learn a lot by knowing these conditions for sure.

Let's hope the world makes more Mother Thersas, Popes etc... We can use many more like that.

Thanks for bring this information to the discussion.

Terry O

But you still have to be cautious. Some certifications, such as ASNT, are not portable with the employee to each company.

My opinion is being open to opportunities is a better way to seek progress in one's field. If your career isn't going anywhere no amount of training or certification will change that. However, it will make it easier to transfer those skills to somewhere that is willing to recognize your efforts. .

I tell my guys training and certification is very important. They will need it in order to advance in their field. Will it increase their pay here? The pay will increase, but there is a ceiling to what we are willing to pay a person for a particular task. Making more money seems to be about taking advantage of opportunities. If money is your goal, be willing to make a move. If your company is getting what they want out of you, no amount of training or knowledge is going to increase your pay.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Waylon M,

I don't know about pay rises with certification, but some of our postgrad students (age 30 -50) who are studying or have completed our off campus qualifications have gained big salary rises. One got $A20K more, another got promoted from engr to supt, another got a better job elsewhere based on what he said he could do for the company (learnt in his studies).

I think I would be looking for someone who is a good performer, PLUS has done some formal study that has been assessed (bot just day courses).

We have students in 14 countries. Email me if you want to know more.. Ray.Beebe@eng.monash.edu

Some of the worst programs I've seen are from those having 5 certs on the wall. Why? Really don't make sense but they sure don't deserve any extra pay.

What does? A field proven record of success and performance. Having a piece of paper doesn't make you qualified. If you've run a PdM program for 10 years and have planned scheduled maintenance with extended maintenance intervals then you've proven yourself and deserve. Joining the mutual admiration society does not mean squat in my book.

Too many silly frat guys earning high pay and doing nothing but brown nosing. Going to a week seminar doen't prompt a pay raise. But it was in Vegas; right! Stayed in the room all night studying.

Now to qualify: get all the certs you can get and can all you can get. An old addage but none-the-less a good practice. Get all the education you can get. There are those among us here that have a high degree of education and only list their first name and yes they are of the rocket scientist in our field. Many have PhD's and are deserving and rightfully proud so this doesn't take anything away from them.

If you have all the certs, that's good; if that's all you have, that's bad. If you have a four year degree, that's good, if that's all - that's bad.

As we travel down life's highway we should always endeavor to pick-up what we can along the way have a fuller basket and an easier way to move it along. The struggle should become less; this posting board is a very good source of information. I would hate to think I don't learn something here. I for one appreciate the contributors and will never be able to re-pay them for their time and effort. I would like to make this a tribute to them to let them know I appreciate what they've done and probably speak for many more that just haven't said it yet! So, at this time of the season; may God bless and keep you;
Cordially,

In my experience as a consultant, many companies are asking about certifications before issuing a purchase order for service work.

As a vibration training instructor I can tell you that over 50% of my students seek certification because it is required by the employer.

I worked for a company ten years as a vibration analyst. In those ten years I was sent to one vibration course class (TA). My company did not want us to acquire training nor certification. I planned on working there until I retired, but as time wore on I started to resent the company's stand towards reliability. I started looking for another venue, but there were not many companies interested in a ten year veteran whom didn't have a certification. Those that were did not have much to offer. I decided to train myself. I spent two years burning vacation time to attend various functions. Being a tightwad I would often sit in on the last day of a course to take the certification. In some cases I had to attend because the subject matter was above my head or work experience. So, did getting certified help? Yes it did! Making the decision to get certified has been the best career move I have ever made. However, I had to make a move before I could benefit from my efforts.

quote:

Terrence O'Hanlon

Pay has always been an issue in vibration analysis. Vibration technicians, for the most part don't have job descriptions, separate pay scales or solid methods of tracking job performance and technical ability.

Certification is a different story. It has been around for a while but the creation of an international standard is only a few years new and not very well understood by the vibration community let alone management.

Many companies are now requiring vibration certification for employees and contractors working in the technology. Maybe industry will soon attach a value to the certification.

Message to Terry: Have you considered asking vibration technicians to somehow anonymously post their full and part time years in the various technologies, certification level, annual pay and type of company (service or industry)? I've asked this same question twice before to other organizations. The response I got was not pretty.

More information about ISO and ANST certification is here: http://www.mobiusinstitute.com/mi/Certification.html#ISO

quote:

Originally posted by Terrence O'Hanlon:
Well once you are self actualized - money is less motivating unless:

Your mortgage interest rates go up

Your insurance premium rises

You have unexpected astronomical health care bills

Gas goes to $70 a barrel

If me - the employee - and him - the company owner - each have enough to feed and shelter our families and I can develop a reliability action plan to deliver millions of dollars to the bottom line - should I be happy with the free ice cream as a reward?

If you want results - pay for them. The best and brightest today are knowledge workers and they are the ones who can demand reward for result or seek a new company to apply those same results to.

It is knowledge workers who are in short supply - not dysfunctional companies.

Terry O

Terrence,
Now that point 4 is upon us and crude is getting ever closer to 70$ a barrel, I think we should all consider the pay raise issue...
hope to meet some of you at the RCM 2006 event.
See you there.

An apprenticeship program progressively provide advances in pay but a train program of four years rather than a course that only last 3-5 days in Las Vegas??????????????? Of course they are in Las Vegas to get learning but not necessarily in the classroom. When they get back to work that wealth of knowledge is shared and the company's ROI increases; right! Naturally everyone is hard at work studying at night and not taking adavantage of the night life and is bright-eyed in class the next day. Could this have something to do with it? The company is footing the bill and some of these thoughts have to be in the back of someone's mind.......probably the one who is paying the bill.

I believe in getting all you can and canning all you get. You can't help but learn something if in class. But you have to apply it and have interest and be self-motivated and have a burning desire to 'want-to'. Without that interest, it's just a job. I don't think there is any way a three day course can make you qualified. If you're qualified the course can be a boon. Do the one's teaching have a field proven track record of running a program that has attained planned scheduled maintenance. Of course there are a lot of folks in the world of academics that are very knowledgable and you can learn from them but like an earlier comment; it only makes sense once you're in the field and performing. Then hopefully with time you progress to running a successful program. I'd forego the salary if I could get a piece of the savings from PdM. So a key must be documentation of what you're doing in dollars if you want recognization and advancement. Just a thought. If it's not documented you'll have to settle for an attaboy.

No sour note intended: the training programs are good. It's up to the person what he/she does with it. Get all the training you can. The cert programs are good....but, it's the training and classroom that counts - not the diploma on the wall. It's results that the class provides, not the wall hanger. So, results aren't provided upon completion of a class or the attaining of a diploma. Years of effort must accompany along with a record of success.